Monday, November 27, 2006

True dialogue

Starting this site, I hoped to have a dialogue with those who think differently. As such, I have not been censoring opposing viewpoints (with exception, the spammer Citisucks, who refused to stop blaming literally every problem on the 'white corporate male terrorist') However, with time, I have started to wonder if a dialogue is really possible. It started with this post, and culminated with my posting on Eteraz's website. I started to see that the gulf between how I think, and how most regulars on this website think, is just so wide, that I wonder if there really is any hope of influencing those who sympathize with jihadists or make excuses for them. My question to all your culture for all regulars is...do you believe any real dialogue is possible? How do you engage in a real discussion with these people, or is it rather pointless? As was recently showcased on Shlemazl's blog, those who appear to have changed often are the same people they always were. I have noticed that it is almost as if I live in an alternate reality from these people. A perfect example of this alternate reality can be seen in the recent imam airport incident in the US. Six imams were escorted off a plane after they had disturbed passengers by praying so loudly and openly, and repeatedly praising allah. To that I say a few things. 1) It is clearly understandable, in an age of international terrorism, post-9/11, why passengers would be worried about six imams loudly praying on a plane. Any attempt to paint airplane passengers as bigoted crazies is politically correct garbage. I would be crapping my pants if I saw that on a plane, as would any person who is honest with their emotions. 2) It is clearly Islamic fundamentalism, not Christian or Jewish, that is the driving force behind airplane terrorism. The amount of Christian and Jewish terrorism is nothing compared to Islamic terrorism. Let's cut the PC bullshit already and admit that! 3) This is not to say that all or most Muslims are terrorists, though I believe the proof is in and most Muslims are antisemites. (see Pew Global Research poll, very well respected) 4) The imams in question were innocent of any designs on committing airplane terror, but not all were necessarily innocent flowers. One of them, Omar Shahin, has links to Osama Bin Laden and Hamas (via the Kind Hearts charity - linked with Hamas) 5) CAIR now wants to criminalize 'racial profiling' at airports as a result of this incident, but refuses to acknowledge the above facts. 6) Wouldn't it be more effective, in terms of getting Americans to be cool with Muslims, for CAIR and other groups to work to stop support for terrorism in mosques and madrassas? Why is that never brought up in any of these discussions? I stated before: You upset? DO SOMETHING! I am hoping there will soon be a mass movement at new Quranic, Hadith, and Sunnah interpretations. I am hoping that there will be a mass rejection of terrorism. Perhaps I am an optimist. What can be done to bridge this gulf? Of course there will be racial profiling, as long as it is generally Muslims who are committing acts of terror. (or at least, while it goes on in the name of Islam) Why is the Female Quran committee so rare? Why is there so little effort being done to reform the faith, and a great deal of effort paid to just reforming how Westerners VIEW the faith? Am I tilting at windmills? Is there any real dialogue?

13 comments:

Jason said...

I think meaningful dialogue on the internet, at least in this kind of medium, is completely futile, as I've seen many examples of it being futile in the past. Usually its the people who just read and don't come to argue in the comments that get the most out of it, so any progress you make tends to be a one way street.

You also have plenty of people paying attention to this blog from the extreme left and right, with the terror apologists on one side who think America is to blame for everything wrong, and the fundie LGFish crowd like mrstupiderthanyou thinking the gays and atheists are to blame for everyhting wrong with the world. You can't have meaningful dialogue with these kind of people around, because it tends to turn things in to a complete free for all since they're such a disruptive element in discussions.

These people should eb glad that I'm not in charge, because I would put up with very little of this and have no reservations about deleting comments and imposing rules and the like.

Red Tulips said...

Jason,

I have toyed with deleting Mr. Smarterthanyou's comments many times, but ultimately decided I would be a hypocrite if I did so.

In any case, I think you are correct in your assessment about the chances for dialogue.

This saddens me, but I think you are right.

That said, LGF is not a monolith, and many informed and interesting people come from LGF, of course with exceptions!

Anonymous said...

Red Tulips, I agree with you. I have posted a video by Glenn Beck http://tofu-technologies.blogspot.com/ that highlights the extent of the problem. If Muslim schools within America are teaching children to hate America, then what hope is there?

Red Tulips said...

Lexcen:

The hope is that there will be a reform within Islam, bringing about a paradigm shift. That is my hope.

But until that happens, it is only natural that there will be profiling. When CAIR and other such groups attack profiling, rather than the reason for profiling, they are completely ignoring the root problem, and attempting to get Americans to similarly ignore the root problem.

Steven said...

I think you are a white male corporate terrorist. ;)

Steven said...

3) This one shows the denial. If Arabs did not carry out the 9/11 attacks - the natural question is who do these people think did carry out the attacks?


4) I believe this is a dry run designed solely for a propaganda push. Call me cynical.

5) CAIR is a Islamic Fascist organisation.

There is so little effort being made to reform Islam because Muslims believe that Judaism and Christianity have twisted God's words and they have the only pure revelation. Any attempt to tell Muslims to modernise is an insult and we should not be making this demand.

Is there any real dialogue? Yes for moderates but no to people who are set in their ways... and nobody can expect anything more than that. When we face someone who has a different perspective to us we can't expect them to change their mind - all we can do is keep pick-picking away at the foundations of their beliefs. Eventually the stone will break.

Mr. Smarterthanyou said...

Attempting to "dialogue" with Islamicists and their apologists is nothing more than mental masterbation.

The only solution is to show muslims how us rednecks play "cowboys and indians", only muslims get to be the indians.

Liberals can just stand on the sidelines and complain about how we do it as per usual.

PS thx for not playing censor, although you have the private property rights to do so. If nothing else, my "extremism" may prompt some idiots to realize that they may not like the spring-back that will eventually come if we stay our PC course.

Red Tulips said...

Smarty,

Don't feel so confident with yourself. I originally wrote that I kept you because 25% of what you said made a small amount of sense, but that is not even true. You almost never make sense. I would say you make sense 5% of the time, if that, because even when it seems we agree, you have to say some assinine thing that proves you are a psychopath.

Your hatred of anyone who is different than you - be they Jews, Muslims, gays, or 'liberals,' shows you to be one of the most loathesome human beings on the planet.

Do not mistake the fact that I did not ban you for approval of your message.

Mr. Smarterthanyou said...

Geeze, you have profound comprehension problems.
#1, I never implied that you agree with me.

#2, apparently anyone who dissagrees with the PC idiocy that you believe in is a "hater". That is not logic, a 10 year old can do better than that.

I love how you put liberals in quotes. Typical liberal dishonesty, to now try to imply that there is no such thing as a liberal. When you cannot win an argument, call people names and redefine words until they mean what you want.

Red Tulips said...

Smarty:

Excuse me, but you are the one who uses the invective "LIBERAL" as some sort of a curse word that you fling at anyone who disagrees with you. You did so in your very reply.

Thanks for proving me right.

Render said...

Jason...

I am a LGF regular. I am not a "fundie." I am an American Jew and I am a Zionist. I am a single issue voter. That issue is the war.

The anti-semitic POS posting here under the handle of "mr.smartthanyou" is not a regular poster on LGF - at least not under that handle, nor is there anybody currently registered with that handle at LGF.

Whats more, such a person who posts the kind of drivel that "mr.smaterthanyou" puts up here is in no way representative of anybody who is currently posting at LGF, or of the collective Lizards.

There are at least three other people, who post regularly here on Culture for All, who also post on LGF, are they all fundies too?

Given that mr smarterthanyou is posting here, and not at LGF, what conclusion should one draw about Culture for All?

===

RT: You have the patience of a saint. I would have banned the POS a thousand times already.

...and I only had to see three posts to reach that conclusion.

===

Mr.smartthanyou.

No, you are not and you never will be. It's genetics.

ALL
FRONTS,
R

Red Tulips said...

RENDIE! Yay you are back!

I have taken the position of just banning all future posts from 'Smarty' (that is his monicker on Sandmonkey and Big Pharoah's boards, where I believe he found C4A), unless there is a whiff of intelligence to them.

It is a drastic action to take, and generally I believe in dialogue, but I decided there is no dialogue with this guy after reading the lastest final solution drivel.

Render said...

:)

Almost too bad...

I had about 50 other ways to mis-spell that pathetic handle...

OF
COURSE,
R