Friday, November 17, 2006

Religious Jewish intolerance

Haredi Jews protested the "abomination parade" (Gay Pride parade in Jerusalem) by burning municipal cars and garbage bins. The march along Jaffa Road was reduced to a rally at the Grossberg Stadium at Givat Ram and mercifully passed almost without incident. Above is a picture of the havoc wrecked by these people. It is due to these violent protestors that the so-called "storm troopers" were called in to provide safety and security for the residents of Jerusalem and the parade goers. This cause is anti-civil rights, it is violent, and if it represented mainstream Judaism, I would be embarrassed to be a Jew and renounce all ties to the religion. That is how appalled I am by this conduct. The Haredi Jews are extremists, often living on welfare in Israel, and generally do not join the IDF. In fact, some of them are extremely anti-Israel. From the article:

In the lead-up to the parade, Eda Haredit members tried to stop haredi youth who were pelting police with rocks, cinder blocks, bottles, angle irons and wood planks, telling them that the Torah forbids taking actions that endanger lives. Their declaration of a curfew and of a step back from the brink of violence came after months of incitement in the fervent yet fractured world of haredi Jewry. Founded in 1919, the Eda Haredit is a coalition of a number of groups of mitnagdim (opponents) and Hassidim such as Toldot Aharon, Satmar and Jerusalem Hassidim. The extremist sect, well known for its kosher food certification, should not be confused with ultra-Orthodox society as a whole, which is also called haredi, meaning trembling [before God]. The Eda is vehemently anti-Zionist and does not recognize the existence or authority of the State of Israel [see box]. In 1945, Agudat Israel, formerly aligned with the Eda, broke away and today forms part of the United Torah Judaism party together with the Lithuanian faction Degel Hatorah. Typically, with the breathless narration one might expect from a World Cup finale, Kol Haredi (The Haredi Voice) - a telephone hot line that broadcasts recorded news - provided "live updates and ongoing and direct reports from all the developments and demonstrations in Jerusalem and all over the country against the parade of abomination." ... Meanwhile, although they belong to an even more fanatic faction, the members of Natorei Karta - who similarly do not recognize the legitimacy of the State of Israel - heaped fire and brimstone on the Eda's anti-gay crusade, which they saw as a paradoxical expression of identification with the blasphemous Zionist government. "Their war is for the 'character' of the Zionist state, so that this will be a country no worse than the other nations of the world," the newspaper Mishmeret Hayehadut wrote about the Eda Haredit - which since 2002 has been headed by Rabbi Yitzhak Tuvia Weiss, formerly the dayan (judge) of Antwerp, Belgium. "They are also sitting with the heads of the Zionist police to consult with them about how to cancel this impurity." Meanwhile Israel's chief rabbinate issued a statement on November 6 calling the country's homosexuals the "lowest of people" and urging the public to assemble for a nationwide prayer vigil as gay rights marchers gathered in Jerusalem.

Eventually, the parade was able to go on by limiting the parade route and making it a mechanical, and without any of the pagentry of other parades. But this shows in stark contrast how the "anti-Zionist" Jews are the most bigoted, intolerant, and hate mongering of all of World Jewry. I note in particular the disgusting words of American Jews, who attended the 'protests.' If they represented American Jewry, I would again renounce all ties on the spot.
SOME OF the zealots who disobey Badatz are American yeshiva students looking for some excitement to lighten the tedium of constant Torah study. Avraham Erezel is a 20-year-old from Brooklyn who studies at the prestigious Mir Yeshiva. Acting in his opinion on the orders of Rabbi Elyashiv, almost every night in the week preceding the gay pride rally he left the Lithuanian seminary's study hall with hundreds of other students to clash with police. "Friends in New York told me that Israel is a crazy place, but I didn't imagine how crazy," says Erezel, who scorns the police here. "In New York they would have let us have it long ago. We especially are not afraid of the police. As soon as they see an American passport, they release you on the spot. Half the people here are Americans. We're all Jews and we all have a common goal: to stop the parade and to have some fun." (SOME IDEA OF FUN, YOU SICK BASTARDS!) Israel Rosenbaum of Brooklyn, now studying at the Brisk Yeshiva, explained, "Not everybody has a rabbi whom they follow. They see action and they come running." Ezra Rubinowitz, 21, of Los Angeles, was equally keen not to miss the action in the streets of Mea She'arim. "The rabbis are in favor of it," he explained. "They think it will stop the parade. They tell themselves, 'It's not so bad for the young people to enjoy themselves a little, the main thing is that the parade is stopped.'"
*pukes* These people should be ashamed of themselves. It is disgusting to read these words spoken by ANYONE, let alone Jews.

25 comments:

Jason said...

""""The Eda is vehemently anti-Zionist and does not recognize the existence or authority of the State of Israel [see box].""""

Waitwait. So they don't recognize its existance, but they F-!@# live there?????

I knew about the protests (obviously, since I posted about it on my blog) but not all of these details, especially that these people don't recognize israel yet live on its welfare. o_O

And the words of the Americans you posted firghten me too, especially since the one complaining that most of the pride paraders were American (if I read that right) eerily reflect the words of someone on a livejournal atheist group, who said the pride parade was just "us" (whoever that is) forcing western sensibilities on Israel.

When I pointed out to him that there are actual gay people in israel, and asked if they should just have to leave their country rather than fight for change, he actually said they should leave.

Mr. Smarterthanyou said...

They should be forced to live ellsewhere, to put their money where their mouths are.


But gay parades are about "in your face" gay politics, don't be suprised when people don't like it.

Jason said...

""They should be forced to live ellsewhere, to put their money where their mouths are.""

That doesn't even mean anything in this context.

Revolutionary Blogger said...

"The Eda is vehemently anti-Zionist and does not recognize the existence or authority of the State of Israel [see box]."

Waitwait. So they don't recognize its existance, but they F-!@# live there?????


There are native tribes in Canada, US that don't recognize the government/state. Many Guarani tribes in Brazil would rather die then recognize the government of Brazil. Does that mean that they should leave the country?

Nope...no intolerance here :-)

Irina Tsukerman said...

I hate to sound cynical, but the opponents of the parade hurt their own cause through their actions. If they had ignored it altogether, it would have gotten much less attention.

Red Tulips said...

RB:

These people purposely moved to Israel in order to bring down the nation as 5th columners. They are hardly the equivalent of native tribes.

Irina:

Agreed, for sure.

Mr. Smarterthanyou said...

If you live in a nation, and oppose the existance of that nation, and agitate for the same, that is as clear an example of treason as you can get. From what I read on feminist/liberal blogs, a huge chunk of the democratic party, probably at least 30%, qualify as traitors too.

Of course, why should jews be particulary supportive of gays? Because not only are so many jews f*cked up about their religion, but so many of them are incapable of normal relationships as well?

Are jews supposed to be a monolithic support groups for freaks?

Red Tulips said...

Mr. Smarterthanyou,

I am getting sick and tired of your constant bigotry.

There is nothing "freaky" about being gay. All it is is love of someone of the same sex. That is it. Take your bigoted, disgusting, and plain WRONG views elsewhere. I am so sick of having to respond to your nonsense.

To the extent that Jews as a group are usually supportive of gay people, I am proud to be Jewish. This has nothing to do about 'abnormality.' It is about equality, love, and decency, PERIOD!

As far as treason, merely civilly disagreeing with the existence of the government is not treason. However, violent action to bring down the government IS treason. To the extent that that was a motivating factor for the violence seen here, I do see these people as traitors who should be deported and stripped of the right to return.

Jason said...

""""If you live in a nation, and oppose the existance of that nation, and agitate for the same, that is as clear an example of treason as you can get. """"

The ones opposing the existance of israel are the ones protesting the parade you fucking idiot. Can't you read?

The gays are the ones who LIKE Israel and don't want to leave their country.

Thomas Forsyth said...

RB> Well, the differnece is when one acts violently against the host nation.

Irina> You present the exact point. Drawing attention to somethin gives you notice. If I wrote a book, I'd hire a preacher to badmouth it where I had a book signing for that very reason :)

Mr. Smarterthanyou> Where do you get some of your beliefs? You remind me of Princess Clara from Drawn Together.

Jason> Don't mind him. He suffers from ideological soldiarity, but feel free to channel your tourettes and curse him out big time :)

Mr. Smarterthanyou said...

Well Red, you liberals are supposed to be so tolerant and into diversity, why is it that you cannot tolerate opposing views? Hypocrite, just like most liberals.

Agitating for the overthrow of your own country is treason. If you think it takes violent action to be treason, you are stupid and uninformed. I use the word stupid because you have to be stupid to correct someone so strongly WHEN YOU ARE THE ONE IGNORANT OF FACTS AND DEFININITIONS!!!!!! Is it too much to ask a liberal to look words up in a dictionary rather than just interpret them based on how she FEELS?


Being gay is about LOVE? Then why are gay men so sexually active, with a majority having hundreds of lovers? Is that love, or is it about an obsession with perverted pleasure? Explain how typical gay behavior fits your love theory. Or ignore it, because as a liberal, you feel no need to have facts or logic on your side, just your "feelings". Ask Jason if his being gay is about love, ask him how many dudes he has done.

As far as my bigoted, disgusting views, two men, prancing around like demented women, shoving their c*cks in each others asses, going to bathrooms to meet new men to suck off, that isn't demented? Men who spend their whole life focused on their d*cks and their asses, that isn't pointless and disgusting? It isn't normal to react negativly to that? Maybe not where you live, but in the rest of the country, we think you are the sick ones, the straights who feel the need to cast mental/social /physical deviency as normal. No wonder so many gay people kill themselves, they know they are screwed up, but with so many enablers like you out there, they feel they must really be messed up if it isnt the being gay part that makes them miserable.

I don't expect you to be able to follow that, deep thinking required.

As far as the gay Israeli's supporting their country, I bet they are mostly liberal, and mostly for taking a cowardly approach to terrorism.

So in this story, counter-protesting a gay protest is no less valid than the gay protest, but treason is always wrong.

Red Tulips said...

Mr. Not-so-smarterthanyou:

Did you actually read the story????

Many anti-Zionist Jews, who do not believe in the State of Israel, some of whom are members of a group that met with Ahmedinajad, were amongst the leaders of the 'counter-protest.'

They actually are treasonous, and THOSE are the ones who I said were treasonous.

It is amazing how you fail to comprehend the most basic of things, and are so mired in your homophobic hatred, that you are blinded beyond comprehension to reality.

It would be shocking if it were not so damned pathetic. In a way I feel sorry for you, and the way in which you reflexively hate gay people so much you literally are unable to have any basic comprehension of reality. Your hatred has so permeated every level of your being, that you no longer can allow yourself rational thought.

Sad.

Mr. Smarterthanyou said...

I know why liberals are so quick to call hateful those who think differently. It is because you cannot argue logic, you are closed minded to other points of view, and to make things personal is much easier than facing the arguments themselves.

The use of the word homophic is not appropriate, because I do not hate gays. You think you can read my mind? You accuse me of thought crimes? How stalinist of you. It is easy, but not honest, to lash out at me and accuse me of moral failings rather than to deal with my arguments. But there is nothing in your viewpoint that graduates to the level of logic. You want equality for unequal situations, and simply call those who see the situations as unequal bad names, or accuse them of dishonest motivations.

Hate? No, it is not hate. I had a college classmate who is a lesbian, and we were friends off campus too. I don't hate gays and lesbians, I pity them as I pity a cancer patient. I see homosexuals as people who are f*cked up maybe thru actions/experiences of their own, maybe thru "destiny". I hope they are happy, but I know most are not. I know they live a lifestyle that is emotionally and physically unhealthy. My anger is directed at those who think they are doing gays a favor by pretending they are normal. My real anger is reserved for those reality denying, pathologically sick individuals that think presenting homosexuality as perfectly normal to kids, particularly to other peoples kids. Most gay people KNOW they are f*cked up. There is a difference between being understanding and being an enabler of an self-destructive lifestyle.

Notice how in my posts I give reasons and arguments, and in yours, you just flatly state what you think is right, you get sloppy with common words, and then you slander?

I think most liberals are somehow f*cked up, and they chose to band with other f*cked up people in a mutual denial club, where you all pretend not to notice how f*cked up the other people are. Helps keep fragile egos afloat, but it stunts your emotional growth, which explains why liberals seen to jump to immature ad-hominim attacks so quickly.

Red Tulips said...

Many of the ones protesting against the gays are also trying to bring down the State of Israel. They are literally treasonous and anti-Zionist.

You don't get it, despite being told this repeatedly. Instead, you are railing against the gays and calling THEM treasonous. It is clear that your hatred is blinding you to reality. Until you make sense, I am deleting all further posts from you. It is sad that I have to resort to this, but you refuse to admit clear cut facts and instead are railing against the gays.

The gays like Israel and are not trying to bring it down. The rabid religious anti-Zionist Jewish crazies (amongst others, but I was speaking about who the article highlighted) are protesting against gays as part of larger protests against the State of Israel.

If you stated even "I hate the gays, and thought the protestors were right, even if their motivations were wrong" you would be homophobic, but at least not batshit insane.

Instead, you are saying, with all evidence pointing to the contrary, that the gay people in Israel are treasonous, and the protestors are the saviors of Israel!

Why do you say this? Because you hate without thinking.

The fact that you are 'friends' with a gay person is irrelevant and the oldest trick in the book. "I don't hate black people, my best friend is black" is a parody of an expression. This also applies to gays.

No one, I repeat no one, who was in any way confident with their heterosexuality would be as filled with hatred as you are.

Sad.

Mr. Smarterthanyou said...

I didn't say that the gays were treasonous. Care to find that quote for me?

Again, you use insult because you cannot deal with logic. Somehow I am not confident in my sexuality? That remark only shows that you are not a lady, but I am sure you still expect to be treated like one.

Where is an example of hatred while we are at it? Or you simply define things however you want, when you want?

It would be nice if you would quote me, and then try to shoot down my argument. Instead I have no idea who you quoted in bold. Yourself? I guess that is a typical liberal argumentation method, falsly attribute statements to someone, then shoot down those statements.

What is sad is that YOU are so blinded by your hatred, your intolerance for those who don't share your view of tolerance, that you cannot have an honest argument.

Red Tulips said...

Mr. Not-so-smarterthanyou:

You stated, in your first post, the following:

They should be forced to live ellsewhere, to put their money where their mouths are.

But gay parades are about "in your face" gay politics, don't be suprised when people don't like it.


You then went on to say:

If you live in a nation, and oppose the existance of that nation, and agitate for the same, that is as clear an example of treason as you can get. From what I read on feminist/liberal blogs, a huge chunk of the democratic party, probably at least 30%, qualify as traitors too.

Of course, why should jews be particulary supportive of gays? Because not only are so many jews f*cked up about their religion, but so many of them are incapable of normal relationships as well?

Are jews supposed to be a monolithic support groups for freaks?


This clearly says that you believe the gays are treasonous.

As far as gay pride parades, all your rants about gay sex and promiscuity are irrelevant. The pagentry of the gay pride parade in Jerusalem was banned, and it was simply a march to a stadium - actually, kinda boring. Nothing like gay pride parades elsewhere.

Your statements about gay people otherwise are so over the top insane as to not be worthy of a comment. Suffice it to say, I am basically positive that you live in terror of one day being discovered for the self hating gay man you are, because NO ONE hates gay people as much as you do (and make not mistake about it, going on and on ad naueseum of the 'sickness' of gays is absolutely a hatred) without living in terror that THEY are gay. (this is why it is called homophobia, FEAR - you are AFRAID you are gay)

Being gay is NOT about sex. Anyone can have sex with anyone, literally. Sex is a physical act. Being gay refers to having the ability to only have serious romantic love with someone of the same sex. LOVE. I know straight people who had gay sex. THEY ARE NOT GAY. I know gay people who had straight sex. THEY ARE NOT STRAIGHT. Being gay has nothing to do with who a person will have sex with as people, when it comes down to it, are able to have sex with anyone.

This is my last response to you for real. If you decide to actually wise up and at least admit that you were clearly mistaken about gay people in this instance, and not blinded by your utter hatred (which actually derives from fear), you can remain on this board. Otherwise, I will be forced to delete your posts, posts which are utter ravings of a madman.

Red Tulips said...

One thing for future note:

When I quote in the comments, it is in italics. Bold in the comments simply highlights words I want to say.

Mr. Smarterthanyou said...

Wow.

I responded first about the anti-israel jew, then a separate paragraph about gays. You strung them together in your mind and think I confused the two. Maybe I should have been less stream-of-thought, but I was responding to some of your paragraphs, in order.

You are so blinded by your liberal dementia that you didn't notice.

In summary:
anti (name your country) citizens of same country, who agitate for the destruction or weakening of that country, are traitors.

Separately, it is interesting that you think jews should all be supportive of gays.

Lastly, accusing my of fear, of homophobia, of being in doubt about my own sexuality is something that a lady doesn't say. You don't know me, you are just using insult as an easy way out. Interesting how liberals always seem to think they can read other people's motivations.

Red Tulips said...

Let me just be clear here...

In your first post, you spoke of how agitators against the state of Israel should not live there. In the second post of your's, you spoke of hatred for liberals, saying 30% are traitors, and that people should not be supportive of gays.

That seems to be rather clear cut saying you viewed gays as traitors.

Now, if you want to recant that, go ahead. I am waiting for you to recant that. Tell me you didn't mean it.

As far as your hatred of gay people, I am speaking facts. Given there is no logic behind hating gay people for the crime of being gay (and you do, when you continually speak of their sickness, and depravity), then your hatred clearly stems from fear. Why else would you be afraid other than fear of turning gay?

The promiscuity and sexual 'deviance' you cite is hardly limited to gay people. There is no logic in hating gay people solely because of that, given straight people ALSO engage in that behavior.

Red Tulips said...

To be clear, I do not expect you to recant your hatred for gay people. I am only asking that you recant that gays were treasonous in Israel.

Mr. Smarterthanyou said...

I never said the gays were traitors for being gay. I do think liberals in the US are traitors on purpose or out of stupidity, but it has nothing to do with gayness.

"As far as your hatred of gay people, I am speaking facts. Given there is no logic behind hating gay people for the crime of being gay (and you do, when you continually speak of their sickness, and depravity), then your hatred clearly stems from fear. Why else would you be afraid other than fear of turning gay?"

Let's see, a liberal who doesn't know the difference between a fact and poor logic based on assumption. How rare. I said I do not hate people for being gay. You say I do.

You then add that since I hate gays (which I don't), and since it isn't logical (even if the premise was true that I hate them) then I must be afraid of them. That is a compound bit of bad assumptions and crappy logic. If I hated gays, there could be 1,000 reasons why. You chose one, for no logical reason, then, once you stipulate that, you then make another assumption that I am afraid because I am a closet case. See how many assumptions you make, each one building on another?

"The promiscuity and sexual 'deviance' you cite is hardly limited to gay people. There is no logic in hating gay people solely because of that, given straight people ALSO engage in that behavior."

Get real. Again you assume the hate. How many lovers do straight people tend to have? Compare that to gays. How many straight people pick one night stands up in rest stops and bathrooms? It is all too common for gay men, and you know it.

3/4 of gay men have had more than 100 lovers. How many straight men or women do you know who say the same? Oh wait, you hang out with self-centered, non-judgmental liberals, so you sample is probably skewed with male and female sluts.

Gay behavior deviates from the norm, in many ways. Look up the word "deviance", and among the meanings you will see that I used it correctly.


You don't seem to have ever taken a class in logic or argumentation, and if you did, your professor sucked, and you should try to sue her. You will not be trying big serious cases in court. I feel sorry for people who get ripped off in college, you think you are ready to be a lawyer. You liberals are so used to your opinions being everything, to having no negative feedback for sloppy thinking as long as you spout the party line, that you are unarmed for mental combat. Here, in this forum, there are no judges, no juries, so you can think you win every argument. Get yourself in a position where there is a real outcome, a real decision, and you will get your ass handed to you. But who knows, Clinton and Carter appointed plenty of people like you to the bench. Witness the incoherence and incompetence of the 9th circuit court.

Red Tulips said...

Okay, you are stating that the parade goers in Israel were NOT treasonous. Good...we are making progress.

As far as the rest goes, your hatred is amusing and highly illogical.

If you hate promoscuity/'deviance,' then you should hate THAT behavior, and not gays because SOME gay people engage in that behavior.

I do not believe 3/4 of gays have had 100+ partners, but even if they did, the reason why that would be is that marriage is not a possibility for gay people, and promiscuity is hence going to be the logical result of that.

In any case, if you hate promiscuious gays, you should be totally cool with monogamous gay people and want to encourage that through marriage.

But your hatred has nothing to do with behavior. You hate all gays as being 'sick' and 'depraved,' even if they only have sex with one person in their entire lives, and that one person is their life partner.

If a gay person were a conservative accountant, that would not be cool with you, because they are gay.

This begs the question as to why this is.

I am firmly convinced the reason why is that you are struggling with your own issues of sexuality.

Please come to grips with that before castigating anyone else for issues YOU are not able to deal with.

Mr. Smarterthanyou said...

If you ability to distinguish cause and effect is so limited that you think promiscuity is the result of not having normal people recognize/allow official gay marriage, then you are simply an indictment of our education system. As a taxpayer, I want my money back from any aid your so-called law school got from me. The rest of your stuff is a continuation of your insistance that I hate gays. I HATE LIBERALS!!! Not people who are gay. I HATE IDIOTS who think it is their right to push the gay agenda on society, that is different from hating gays. GET IT?

I wonder how many of those people here who agree with your viewpoint are honest enough to realize that your argumentation is appalling for a supposed law school grad.

Red Tulips said...

Mr. Not-so-Smarterthanyou:

Why does marriage exist? To encourage monogamy. (or polygamy where it is a polygamous marriage)

In fact, as gay people have become more accepted, the rates of promiscuity has gone DOWN. Go to NYC and the Greenwhich Village. In the 70's, there was club after club after club, and all sorts of rampant promiscuity in the community.

In the 2000's? The Village is far tamer, contains many straight clubs, and in fact the number of gay clubs has decreased in number.

You are living in a different world, pre-AIDS, pre-acceptance of gay people.

Sorry, but the picture you paint is wholly false, but to the extent it ever existed, as in a large part due to gay people rejecting the popular culture they lived in, and forming their own culture of promiscuity of the 70s.

Andrew Sullivan has written volumes about this very topic. He titles it "The End of Gay Culture."

Get a new paradigm, your's is dead.

The End of Gay Culture

Mr. Smarterthanyou said...

Sorry, not a subscriber, can't read it.

I have read that infection rates for AIDS in the gay community has stopped dropping and is on the rise, indicating promiscuity is going back up.

Regarding gay acceptance, people are not all that accepting of it, but public officials sure seem to be. As like minded people move into various parts of the country, you get gay havens, and you get areas where it isn't acceptable. Overall, the overwhelming majority of people still don't want a flamboyant homosexual teaching in their schools, but now you and your fellow liberal jewish lawyers, in conjunction with incompetent, liberal judges, are pretty much forcing us to grin and bear it.

The only way the gay community has made inroad to acceptability is through sheer dishonesty and propoganda. Gay rights parades are not shown in all their glory, only the tame parts. Gay rapists and molesters are not front page news, unlike Matthew friggen Shepard. Claims of "Oh, we just want to love" are shown on the evening news, but George Michael admitting that he likes to pick up gay lovers in rest stops only makes the back pages.

Can you demonstrate in any reasonably valid way that acceptance increases gay promescuity? The nightclub thing is interesting, but far from evidence of anything. It could be from anti-smoking laws, or other venues, or the ACLU enforced freedom to f*ck in public parks that has reduced the need to use gay bar bathrooms. When you make a statement like this, one that requires the dramatic change in millenia-old custom, it is up to you to substantiate YOUR claim. Imagine going to court to overturn a law, you need to prove that the law is unconstitutional, as you are the challenger.

Your definition of marriage is at best incomplete, but most honestly just plain wrong. The primary reason for marriage is to provide for a pregnant woman and or kids. Barreness used to be sufficient grounds for divorce, from the way old days to recent history. (Hint for the logic impaired, if my statement about barreness is true, then your argument that the purpose of marriage is monogomy is false). That doesn't mean that monogomy isn't an important part of it, but it was not #1, and without kids and pregnancy, imagine trying to justify monogomy in general, as a thought experiment.