Thursday, October 26, 2006
Are Jews secretly trying to elliminate Christianity from this nation?
Mr. Smarterthanyou said the following in a comment section on Jesus Camp and I think it deserves a closer inquiry: There is an effort by many jews to supress Christianity, and in large part, it has been successful. Abraham Foxman of the ADL recently complained that fundimentalists were trying to "Christianize" the US. Well guess what buddy, we are a Christian nation. But the ADL, and the overwhelmingly jewish ACLU and "Americans for the separation of church and state" have been very successful at removing 10 commandment monuments (yes, I know Jews value this also), crosses on public land, public prayers, and even Christmas trees, nativity scenes and even Christmas cards hung on walls in schools and workplaces and gov't buildings. Seems this 1% is having a huge effect, and are pissing off a bunch of Christians. off topic, but did Jews and Jewish organizations attack Christianity in 1920's, 1930's Germany? I've always wondered how so many people in Europe could have supported the Holocost. Perhaps the feeling that their religion and culture were under constant, and effective attack by Jews was part of it? I know I feel that way, and most people in the US feel that way about these organizations, although most don't see it as religious, yet. Let's examine what Mr. Smarterthanyou was saying in greater detail... off topic, but did Jews and Jewish organizations attack Christianity in 1920's, 1930's Germany? I've always wondered how so many people in Europe could have supported the Holocost. Perhaps the feeling that their religion and culture were under constant, and effective attack by Jews was part of it? I know I feel that way, and most people in the US feel that way about these organizations, although most don't see it as religious, yet. Given he earlier advocated the total annhiliation of all Palestinians, I would have to assume that by this statement, he was saying that he could see a justification for the Holocaust, because Jews were "attacking Christianity" in Europe. That point of view is appalling and also ridiculously untrue. Let's examine the other totally outlandish and utterly unsupported statement that he made... However, Yes, there is an effort by many jews to supress Christianity, and in large part, it has been successful. He 'proved' this by saying... Well guess what buddy, we are a Christian nation. But the ADL, and the overwhelmingly jewish ACLU and "Americans for the separation of church and state" have been very successful at removing 10 commandment monuments (yes, I know Jews value this also), crosses on public land, public prayers, and even Christmas trees, nativity scenes and even Christmas cards hung on walls in schools and workplaces and gov't buildings. Let's look at each and every example of the 'proof' that Jews are suppressing Christianity... a) 10 commandment monuments - last I checked this is a Jewish as well as Christian belief. Moreover, a monument is not a religion. Whether or not a monument exists has nothing to do with whether or not Christianity is allowed to be practiced. The placement or lack thereof of a monument on public land does not affect anyone's ability to worship Christianity as they please. Hence, this is NOT 'suppressing Christianity' in any way. Moreover, Ten commandments are NOT barred on public lands. It is okay if it is part of a general religious display. (rather than seen by itself) See: Van Orden v. Perry. Given the Ten Commandments have not been barred from public lands (see the Supreme Court decision) then this drive to ban the Ten Commandments (which is not even only Christian, but is also Jewish) from public lands has not been 'successful.' Next example: b) Crosses on public land. Well, first of all, there is a little thing called the FIRST AMENDMENT. Our Founding Fathers were Deists, and not religious Christians. A cross on a public land signifies an association that the nation has with Christianity, when in fact this is a religiously pluralistic nation. Furthermore, the placement or lack thereof of a cross on a public land has nothing to do with your ability to worship Christianity. Of course, you could be an idol worshipper and need the cross to worship. But if you are, you most certainly are going against the very tenants of Christianity. c) public prayers: Again, we are not a CHRISTIAN nation. We are a nation with a Christian heritage that is religiously pluralistic. Public prayer moves towards establishing an official religion, and is against the first amendment. But moreover, last I checked, you are not forbidden from praying in private. This is not evidence of suppression of Christianity. d) Christmas trees: Sorry buddy, but you are wrong. Christmas trees are allowed across the nation on public ground. e) nativity scenes: Again, you are somewhat wrong about the nativity scene. Allegheny County v. ACLU held that a creche scene with the words 'Glory to God in the Highest' staged by itself on public grounds is an impermissable establishment of religion. But the Supreme Court did not say all creches on public property is illegal. f) Christmas cards: That is totally legal. You are going to have to cite a court case to back up this wild accusation that Christmas cards cannot be displayed. I want to add that the ACLU and Americans United for Separation of Church and State stand againt all religions being tied with the government. The Allegheny case I earlier cited was in fact litigated by the ACLU, this supposedly 'Jewish' organization that you are so opposed to. This was a two part case, whereby the ACLU was against the public display of a creche and a menorah. In fact, the ACLU has gone after public displays of ALL religions. They also back the cases of freedom of religion - and will represent Christians, Jews, and Muslims in their drive towards freedom of religion. Mr. Smarterthanyou has not proven one iota of a supposed 'Christian bias' by these organizations. Not one iota. He has also not proven that America is a Christian nation. Yes, America is primarily Christian. But it is NOT a nation RULED by Christianity. THAT IS WHAT MAKES IT GREAT! And most illogically of all, he was saying that somehow the ACLU/ADL/etc have been 'very successful' in their attempt to drive Christianity from the nation. Well, how exactly have they been successful if this nation is 95% Christian? This sounds like they have not exactly suppressed Christianity. What is a better measure of 'success' or 'failure' than the numbers of Christians in this nation? And given Christianity is on the RISE in this nation, I would say that if you defined the ACLU's goal as suppressing Christianity, then they have been incredibly UNsuccessful in that goal. One final point. Mr. Smarterthanyou brought up the ADL/ACLU/Americans United for the Separation of Church and State and said three completely untrue statements about these organizations. He simultaneously said that these organizations are opposed to all forms of Christianity (as opposed to other religions), that they have been successful in their goal of driving Christianity from the nation, AND that they are Jewish organizations that represent Jews in any way. The ACLU is an organization of secularists from all persuasions. My problem with it is that they often pick stupid, senseless, and symbolic cases that only serve to anger people, and do not further any real goal. They also will defend freedom of ALL religions, including Islamists and Neonazis. (most famously in the National Socialist Party v. Skokie) This case gave the right for Neonazis to march through a heavily Jewish neighborhood where many Holocaust survivors lived. The ACLU took up this case on 'freedom of religion' and 'right of assembly' grounds. I don't exactly see how this, one of the ACLU's most famous cases, advances Judaism in any way at all. So yes, I have a problem with the ACLU. But to claim that they have some sort of agenda of driving Christianity from the nation and that they have an anti-Christian bias (as opposed to other religions) is flat out untrue. Go to their website. Look at the cases they have taken up. You will see they FREQUENTLY take up cases on behalf of Christians seeking freedom of religion. Do your homework prior to making these wild accusations. Let's look at the board of directors on the ACLU. The Executive Director of the ACLU is Anthony Romero - a Hispanic, and not a Jew! In fact, most of the board are not even Jewish! Are Jews disproportionately driven to the ACLU/Americans United for the Seperation of Church and State? Yes. Do those organizations have some sort of secret Jewish cabal running them? Absolutely no. Implying otherwise, and that somehow Jews are secretly running this country, is one of the oldest forms of anti-semitism in the book. Moreover, these organizations are in no way representatives of the greater Jewish American community. There is absolutely no Jewish 'conspiracy' to drive Christianity into the ground. The cases Mr. Smarterthanyou cited are either totally made up or flat out do not prove anything. This country, in any case, is not a 'Christian' nation, and last I checked, there was no religious test for office. Next time wild and baseless claims are being hurled about, why not do a little research of the most basic of facts?