Monday, July 17, 2006

They are not 'militants' ...they're terrorists

It is now a fortnight since Palestinian terrorists tunnelled under the Gaza border and crossed into sovereign Israeli territory, bringing fear and bloodshed to an ordinary Sunday tea time. They killed two soldiers who were guarding an army post and, infamously, kidnapped a 19-year-old boy, Corporal Gilad Shalit. He has not been seen since. The only news of him for his grieving parents and an anxious Israeli nation comes in the form of repeated ransom demands from the Hamas terrorists believed to be holding him hostage on the direct orders of their Syrian-based leader, Khaled Meshaal. I have a personal connection to these terrible events: Cpl Shalit is a relative of mine. I do not want to claim that Gilad is more than a distant cousin. He is not. He is less than half my age and, although I am told we have met, I cannot recall it. But he represents the sort of direct connection to the land of Israel shared by many, if not most, British Jews. To me, and to them, this abduction is not just another episode in this long-running conflict, happening in a place far away. This is not just another anonymous Israeli. It is personal. By way of background, my grandfather Leon Shalit served with distinction in the British Army during the Second World War. He then moved to Palestine to serve as a lieutenant-colonel in the Israeli Army. This was in 1947, in preparation for what became the 1948 Israeli War of Independence, when five Arab armies (Egypt, Syria, Transjordan, Lebanon and Iraq) invaded Israel in the hope of wiping out the fledgling country. Against all odds, 650,000 Jews won - with minimal help from the West - and the state of Israel became a reality. The country has survived five major wars since then, and that is without even mentioning the on-going conflict with the Palestinians. Last summer, in an attempt to reach lasting peace, Israel voluntarily withdrew more than 8,500 citizens and its troops from Gaza, turning the area over to the Palestinian Authority. By doing so, it made painful sacrifices. Israelis gave up their homes, places of work and worship as well as their schools and farms. Since then, Palestinian terror groups have used Gaza as a launch pad for countless attacks against Israel, including the raid which led to the kidnap of Gilad Shalit. Meanwhile, the Palestinian Authority, the government of Gaza and the West Bank, has fallen into the hands of Hamas, a movement which supports and sponsors this terrorism. Yet coverage by Western TV news - and the BBC is as much to blame as anyone - is consistently distorted. [...] There is a double standard at work. Why do 'terrorists' bomb innocent civilians in London but 'militants' bomb innocent civilians in Tel Aviv? In 2003 the Associated Press, one of the most influential news services in the world, published a list of 15 terrorist incidents during a five-year period between August 1998 and August 2003. In that same time, more than 800 Israelis were murdered in terrorist attacks, but not one of the incidents in Israel made the list. Why? The double standards even affect the politics of football. FIFA condemned an Israeli strike on an empty Palestinian football pitch (a pitch that had been used for terror training exercises, by the way). But it refused to condemn a Palestinian missile attack on an Israeli soccer pitch just moments before the daily training session was set to begin. Everyone has an opinion of Israel - often ill-informed due to the constant criticism in the British Press. Of course Israel would prefer a negotiated peace rather than having to prepare for another military action to aid the safe return of one of her soldiers. But the new Palestinian government refuses even to recognise the right of Israel to exist. [...] By JONATHAN SHALIT, The music impresario who discovered Charlotte Church 22:00pm 8th July 2006. Mail on Sunday.

16 comments:

mrkpp said...

Israel state is a terrorist state. The government deserves no sympathy, becasue of their policy against other people in the region. I am not condoning the notion of "fight fire with fire", but Israel made their bed and now they have to sleep in it. About the so called media being to hard on Israel is also laughable, becasue the Jews are in control of most of the media outlents in the world. Look to your own government and its puppet masters for your answers. I find the use of public smypathy to justify a war, astonishing. Also, the sake of WAR for the chosen land or in the name of GOD is also deplorable. How many more lives have to be lost in the name of GOD. I love GOD, and I tell you, his teachings to not condone this act of aggression by Israel. Get a clue and come from behind the ROCK of ignorance.

Steven said...

Mrkpp: If you wish to say something, back it up so it can be debated.

Israel is not a terrorist state, it is a free country under seige from Islamic terrorist organisations, terrorist sponsoring states and terrorist controlled states.

Most of what you have said is nothing but libel.

mrkpp said...

Let us define terrorism. It is the use of terror and intimidation to gain ones political agenda. Israel is using terror (bombing of innocent civilians and infrastructure)to force the Lebonese government to stop Hezbolah. If Israel wants a peaceful solution, they should try to advocate peace in the nation with the Lebonese government and come to some sort of solution to the problem. So saying my comments are libel is a bit premature. I do not have to use this forum to back it up, turn on the news and you will see all the evidence you need.

Steven said...

Mrkpp, you are correct in your definition. Israel is not targetting innocent civilians but terrorists and their means to stockpile weapons and attack Israelis.

The Lebonese Government will not stop Hezbollah, now Israel is doing the job for them.

If the Arabs want a peaceful solution they should stop attacking Israelis.

Mrkpp: "I do not have to use this forum to back it up."

I can go around saying that pig's fly too, but repeating things with no basis in reality is disruptive and this forum has rules.

Mrkpp: "Turn on the news and you will see all the evidence you need."

As for the news, don't believe everything that is spoon fed to you through the media. Funney I have to tell you that when it is you who states the media is controlled by the Jews.

mrkpp said...

I agree with you that I must back up what I post, so I apologize about that. The stating of turning on the news, it was simply to show evidence of the destruction of the city of Beiruit. I agree with your point about believing everything you see on the news. But let me say this, I am about peace, not ongoing terror or invasions of nations that claim innocent lives around the world, including my own country of the United States. I have nothing against any one race or am I a racist, I wish simply for a peaceful resolutions and equality throughout the wolrd.

mrkpp said...

Is it true the government of Israel is blockading aid and funds to the Palenstines? If it is true, is this not an act of war? Just wondering.

Steven said...

Mrkpp: "The stating of turning on the news, it was simply to show evidence of the destruction of the city of Beiruit."

Israel has the capability to inflict much worse damage, however she is specifically targetting specific targets so as to isolate Hezbollah and eliminate their ability to attack us.

Mrkpp: "Is it true the government of Israel is blockading aid and funds to the Palenstines?"

I will look into the specifics for you if you like. Do you have any more leads?

What I know is that Israel has refused to provide money directly to the PA or Hamas - instead they have offered to give the Palestinians medical supplies and food instead to ensure that the money is not being spent on weapons.

Mrkpp: "If it is true, is this not an act of war? Just wondering."

Good question, I am not sure - but please allow me to reply with a related point: Invading a soverign nation and attacking its people is an act of war. Firing hundereds of rockets at Israeli homes is also an act of war.

+++++

Unrelated:
Did you know in 1967 Israel offered all the land it captured in that defensive war in return for nothing but peace?

Did you know that this is the first time that such a peace deal has been offered in military history - all we want is peace, yet the Arabs met and declared the three famous No's.

No Peace, Recognition of Israel or Negotiations.

Did you know that in 1967 the definition of "Palestine" according to the PLO specifically did not include Gush Katif (Gaza), Judea or Samarra (the West Bank)? This definition changed in 1968 thereby ensuring that "Liberate all of Palestine" means "Destroy Israel".

Steven said...

Mrkpp: "I am about peace, not ongoing terror or invasions of nations that claim innocent lives around the world, including my own country of the United States."

Mrkpp. I want peace too. Sadly peace is not awarded to us by default, when we are attacked, it is our job to protect ourselves. When we defend outselves it is our job to ensure a peace in the future.

What can we do - after defending ourselves we offered to return land which could help protect our children in return for nothing but a promise of peace - we were rejected.

Even the peace agreements with Jordan and Egypt are a joke, and the MB in Egypt have asked for a referendum on the treaty.

This war is not about "occupation", it is not about "stolen land" - it's history is much deeper.

mrkpp: "I have nothing against any one race or am I a racist, I wish simply for a peaceful resolutions and equality throughout the wolrd."

I second that.

Oleh Yahshan said...

Mrkpp,
Israel is sending in food, and other needs into Gaza on a daily Basis - the problem is that leaving the crossing open for too long is dangerous because it becomes a point of attack by the terrorist groups (it has been attacked many times in the past) - but there are good being brought into Gaza all the time.

As for the Civilian infrastructure - Once something is used to military Purpose it is no longer civilian. Therefore blowing up a bridge to stop the moving of Katyushas from north to south is legitimate.
On the other hand aiming fire of rockets to cities, trying to hit as many civilians as possible is against int. Law (look it up) - shooting at hospitals (they did it this evening to tzfat) is Against Int. Law.

mrkpp said...

I believe they hit near a hospital, http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/wire/sns-ap-mideast-fighting-rocket-attack,1,1128115.story, but they tell you it actually did, be careful. Also, Israel also has history of prior terrorist attacks in the region, http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/7/16/165555/760, whether these acts were sponsored by the state or not is another question. Look, I am not trying to defend one side more than the other, just stating there is never a reason for such catastophies around the world, where ever it may be.

I do want to tahnk everyone that has replied to my postings, you have opened my eyes a bit more and gave me a good lesson in backing what you say. I can only pray and hope, especially for the civilians in both areas, for the best in the near future.

Render said...

I've made this simple statement so many times on this forum and others that I've lost count...

Stop killing Jews.

GOD DOESN'T
LIKE IT,
R

Steven said...

Heya Mrkpp. :)

+++++

Mrkpp: "Also, Israel also has history of prior terrorist attacks in the region, http://www.dailykos.com/story/2006/7/16/165555/760, whether these acts were sponsored by the state or not is another question."

I would like to highlight some of what has been listed at Kos Centeral.

**

Kos: "Israel halts tax payments to Palestinians"

1) This is not terrorism - Israel has directly spent the money on medical supplies for the Palestinians. This is because Israel does not want the PA or Hamas (both terrorist organisations who are happy to blow up school kids) to get hold of the money but the Palestinian people themselves.

**

Kos: "Israelis kill 15-year-old inside Lebanon"

2) Terrible news, but the fact remains Israel does not target civilians. Terrorists operate in civilian areas and as such when Israel strikes the terrorists other people are often caught up too. This is part of war.

Our enimies are targetiing our civilians, we are targeting their ability to target us.

**

"Israel tab for West Bank settlements $14B"

3) This was a dead link.

**

Kos: "U.S., Israel Consider Plan to Starve Hamas"

4) This is in reference to cutting aid to Hamas, a worldwide terrorist network, not the Palestinians. Israel has spent money directly on the Palestinians to bypass Hamas.

These are not terrorist acts. Stoping aid to one of the worlds largest terrorist networks is not a terrorist act.

Just a note: In my opinion, Kos is quite a bad source of information on Israel.

+++++

Mrkpp: "Look, I am not trying to defend one side more than the other, just stating there is never a reason for such catastophies around the world, where ever it may be."

It is very difficult to find any truth amidst the libel everywhere on the internet, the best thing anyone can do is learn the history because we can not understand today unless they understand how we got here. If you ever have any questions, feel free to post them at CultureForAll or drop me a message at:
http://openemail.blogspot.com

+++++

Mrkpp: "I do want to tahnk everyone that has replied to my postings, you have opened my eyes a bit more and gave me a good lesson in backing what you say."

A discussion is always welcome. :)

+++++

Mrkpp: "I can only pray and hope, especially for the civilians in both areas, for the best in the near future."

I second that. :)

Oleh Yahshan said...

mrkpp,
I am very happy to be able to have a discussion/ argument with you.
I will say that it is rare in the blog world for someone to be able to have a "chat" like this - while not agreeing on every point and still being able to stay civil.

As for what is going on now - I hope and pray that we see the end to this soon. But only after we see that Hizbullah removes itself from Lebanon, and stops holding it hostage. We here in Israel have nothing against Lebanon - in fact we would love nothing more than to have an open peace with them - such that will benefit both sides with the great tourism, and other such things - but that can't happen with Hizbullah in the way.

Steven said...

Oleh, do you think Israel can completely remove Hezbollah, or do you think they are too much a part of Lebanon?

Steven said...

Oleh! I just noticed you are part of ME on Target. ;)

I left you your first poll result and website feedback... since you had a domain that is. :)

Oleh Yahshan said...

steven,
ya I am with me-ontarget,
I am running the Daily Tid bit in the past week keeping the world up to date with the news :>

Elliot and Yisrael are the real talent on the site though - they write amazing things.

Email me - at webmaster@me-ontarget.com
Im sure we will have a lot to talk about.