Monday, August 28, 2006

I'm aliiiive!

Hey all! I just thought I would say hello, and that I am back from Toronto. I had the absolute time of my life in Toronto - it was just what I needed. While I prefer NYC, I felt like I could actually live in Toronto. I cannot say I felt the same about any other city, save London. Who knows what the future will bring? In any case, I will definitely be back in Toronto, because I feel that I left a part of myself in that fair city. I also have started work - having started last week - so my life has gotten much more hectic. More updates will follow. It is just hard for me to think of what to say at this point. It seems there is so much rhetoric being bandied about that the truth gets lost. We are all stuck in our truthiness worlds. I was at a party last weekend, and I spoke to someone who considers herself a religious Jew, and yet she is "anti-zionist," and "pro-Israel." I have no freaking clue how one can consider oneself that, and be a member of the group of people I call "reality-based." The facts on the ground are that it is absolutely impossible to have a "one state solution," unless one desires an Israel that is terrorist run. Fun times, eh? Overall, it just felt good to sort of step away from this situation for two weeks, take a breather, and recharge myself. I am thinking of ways to reach out to those on the fence and others like them, but honestly, at this point, I am sort of out of ideas. I just hope that the fence sitters decide to open their eyes and read the tremendous amount of hate out there being broadcast against Jews and the US - go to, and then report back. It really is an eye opening experience. The media is not exaggerating the hate. Rather, the hate is being minimized by the mainstream media. But I am happily calm and relaxed at the moment. I guess that's what Canada and a major car accident en route to Canada does to a person! (yes, I was in a car accident, yes I am fine)


shlemazl said...

Glad you enjoyed it. Let us know when you come next time.

ChiefMommy Owl said...

I believe that if Israel is to call itself a Jewish state than it needs to be run as a Jewish state - which means Torah law. Israel was never meant to be a secular state that plays lip service to being Jewish. This is why alot of religious Jews can't consider themselves Zionist. The current government is unacceptable. Of course, it is also unacceptable to give away lands which are rightfully (and legally) Jewish.

By the way, Torah law says that if someone is coming to kill you - you go out and make a war with them. You don't sit around waiting to die :)

Glad you are back and in one piece.

Sara :)

shlemazl said...


1. Zionism started as a movement of secular Jews, who established Israel.

2. "Israel was never meant to be a secular state" - by who? See point 1 above.

3. "This is why alot of religious Jews can't consider themselves Zionist" -

Actually ultra orthodox medieval Jews will never accept Israel. That is not until Messaia turns up.

4. "The current government is unacceptable. Of course, it is also unacceptable to give away lands which are rightfully (and legally) Jewish." - Eh? I give up.

What's your background? Just curious as you kind of sound Jewish, but at the same time unbelievably ignorant.

Render said...

Neither Theodor Herzl nor David Ben-Gurion ever intended Israel or the Zionist movement to be religious, other than as a safe place for Jews to live without persecution.

Both wrote often about the very subject.

The current Israeli would be very acceptable, if half of the known world didn't want Jews dead.


Jason said...

As far as I'm concerned, every state should be a secular state.

ChiefMommy Owl said...

Let me rephrase:

I was addressing Red Tulip's comment about her friend who was both antizionist and pro-Israel at the same time. I was attempting to shed a little light on how this is possible.

I am well aware of the intentions of Theodor Herzl and David Ben-Gurion, the "founding fathers" of the Jewish State. However, these men don't set policy for the entire Jewish people. There are many that believe that a Jewish state should be just that, Jewish. The state should be governed by Jewish Law. Why is this such a hard concept to understand?

Now, does this mean that I don't accept the state of Israel or acknowledge its existence. No, I have nothing but great admiration for the Jews who have commited their lives to establishing the Jewish homeland under very difficult circumstances. I am pro-Israel. However, I don't support the original Zionist ideals of establishing Israel as a secular state.

There are groups of Ultra Orthodox Jews who do not accept Israel without the Messiah. Have you taken the time to understand their reasoning before branding them as medieval? Do you consider yourself better informed on these matters than Torah Giants like the Holy Satmer Rebbe?

Concerning my background, being Jewish is like being pregnant - either you are or you aren't. I am (Jewish that is, not pregnant). If not agreeing with your viewpoint is being unbelievably ignorant, well maybe I am. I'm not the one calling myself a shlemazl.

Jason said...

""However, I don't support the original Zionist ideals of establishing Israel as a secular state.""

Why? The only kind of state worth living in is secular.

Red Tulips said...

I have to agree with Jason on this one.

I happen to believe the only state worth living in is a secular one. An actually religious state is a recipe for disaster.

But thankfully, Israel is a secular Jewish state. This is part of what makes it so great.

As far as the ultra orthodox Jews - they are free to enjoy Israel along with the secularists. A secular state allows for inclusion and opportunity, and a religious state does not. If the ultra orthodox want to be uber religious, they are free to choose that path. But why in "god's name" should anyone else be forced down a path they don't want?

Hence the beauty of secularism. :-)

shlemazl said...


O'K; peace. I was referring specifically to your statement "Israel was never meant to be a secular state".

I disagree with Teitelbaum on principle. He saw his opposition to Zionism as a way of protecting Jewish lives and preventing bloodshed (as well as the Messiah fairy tale). There was no Israel in 1939. Did it help to save Jewish lives?

I believe that it has been proven over 20 centuries that unless Jews organize and protect themselves than noone will protect them. Hamas and Hezbollah want to kill all Jews just as the Nazis did. It is the state of Israel that is preventing it.