Thursday, June 29, 2006

TRUE evil.

Eliyahu Asheri, 18, of Itmer, is dead. He was shot in the head by his captors, the Popular Resistance Committee. That is right. This man, a teenager, a civilian who was NOT in the armed forces, was killed by monsters merely for existing. His crime was existing. I am shuddering right now at the eirie similarities between the hatred of Jews (yes, Jews, not just Israelis, see a recent public opinion poll of Muslims worldwide) at the moment, and the hatred during the time of the Holocaust. Why do I see such similarities? Oh, that's right, Yassir Arafat's mentor, Amin al-Husayni, the original leader of the Palestinians, assisted Hitler in his slaughter of the Jews. Let us take a minute to mourn the loss of this innocent child. UPDATE: Before I could even click "publish post," I read that another innocent Israeli civilian's body was found. The body of Noah Moscowitz, 62, of Rishon Lexion, was found today. This was a man who lived in Israel proper. When will the killing end? When will enough be enough?

42 comments:

Osaid Rasheed said...

The killing started when Israel kicked out the original inhibitants and sent them as refugees to lebanon, Jordan , Syria and Iraq. More than 750000 people were refugees in less than a month.

The solution is so simple : Israel responds to international calls to withdraw from the west bank and Gaza ( as stated by UN resolutions ).

Give these PEOPLE their rights as humans ... and everything will finsih soon.

good day

Osaid Rasheed said...

Israe , in response to this : TRAGIC act of kidnapping this soldier, responded with kidnapping tens and arresting tens of palestinian legislators, hamas membors and NON-VIOLENT ACTIVISTS.

The stupidities done by Hamas are small incomparison to the systematic stupidities of the Israeli government.

Both parties should work for achieving peace. This comes through mutual understanding, education, work and hard work, not through calls for 'targeted assasinations'

I could see that Hamas's policies has been affecting the israeli decision makers !!! lol !

Render said...

Osaid, you liar.

The killing "started" in 1904. It continued through the 1920's and 1930's. Hamas is the Moslem Brotherhood, born in 1928. Twenty years before Israel was born.

Israel did not kick anybody out and those that left most certainly did not number any 750,000.

Lebanon and Iraq refused entry to any refugees, even as Iraq, Syria, and Egypt were persecuting and expelling their own Jewish populations. Most Moslem nations followed suit through the 1950 and 1960's. Expelling Jews.

The "solution" (nice euphemism, shithead), is even simpler than your veiled call for slow motion genocide to continue.

Stop killing Jews. Who are also humans and have rights.

===

What non-violent activists? Support of terrorists and genociders is hardly non-violent.

Everything will finish soon alright...

ALLAH
MUST
DIE,
R

Steven said...

Heya Osaid. :)

If only it was that simple.

Oh I wish it was that simple.

What you have said though is not correct. I do not considder you a liar, however you are mistaken.

I am sure these things will come up again in emails... it is late now.

Goodnight. I hope you had a nice weekend. :)

Steven said...

Render, you ought to be ashamed of yourself.

You start by calling Osaid a liar and conclude by saying: "ALLAH. MUST. DIE." You are absolutely disgraceful.

Do NOT, I repeat, do NOT call Osaid a "Shithead".

Get a grip of yourself. If you have any decency in there you will apologise immediately.

*****

I am glad that you have a basic understanding of history. All too many people do not. Perhaps you could use your time and energy to educate others rather than stigmatise them.

Steven said...

Render, I have only read one of your posts, however I already find you to be both disturbing and disgusting.

Red Tulips said...

Steven,

Agreed on the "Allah must die" and the insults.

Osaid is attempting a legitimate dialogue, and should not be insulted.

Render, I am placing you on warning. I will delete posts if you say things like "Allah must die" in the future. I do not want this blog associated with that kind of thought.

Render said...

“Render, you ought to be ashamed of yourself. You start by calling Osaid a liar and conclude by saying: "ALLAH. MUST. DIE." You are absolutely disgraceful.”

-Osaid lied. I called for the reformation of the genocidal death cult of Islam, before it kills us all.

-Osaids lies are designed to both hide and perpetuate an ongoing genocide. I’m nailing a sign to the mosque doors that says Mo the pedophile ain’t making the trip into the 21st century.

“Do NOT, I repeat, do NOT call Osaid a "Shithead".”

-Ok, right after he stops looking for a final solution.

“Get a grip of yourself. If you have any decency in there you will apologise immediately.”

-I’ll get a grip on whatever it takes to defend my family. I’ll make no apologies for that.

“I am glad that you have a basic understanding of history. All too many people do not. Perhaps you could use your time and energy to educate others rather than stigmatise them.”

-I have considerably more than a “basic” understanding of history. I’ve spent much of the last 33 years studying this very history. Osaid didn’t come in here with a misunderstanding, he didn’t ask any questions. Osaid made statements, that he considered to be factual.

“Render, I have only read one of your posts, however I already find you to be both disturbing and disgusting.”

-You are entitled to your opinion. Nice to know where you stand. I think I already knew, when you didn’t take the opportunity to correct Osaids lies.

===

“Agreed on the "Allah must die" and the insults.

Osaid is attempting a legitimate dialogue, and should not be insulted.

Render, I am placing you on warning. I will delete posts if you say things like "Allah must die" in the future. I do not want this blog associated with that kind of thought.”

-Q, it’s your house, you make the calls.

HOUSE
OF
WAR,
R

Red Tulips said...

Render,

I do want to say that Osaid did not state the truth, whether it was intentional or not. I do not want any mistake about that. I just don't want a pro-Israel blog to be associated with anti-Muslim thoughts, if you catch my drift...

Red Tulips said...

One more thing I would like to add, to Render:

I didn't see Osaid's posts immediately. I would have corrected it all eventually. You were factually correct in what you posted, and I only object to the "war on Allah" and shithead comment.

As far as Steven goes, I know his views on these issues, and has made them very publicly clear in post after post.

Steven said...

Osaid, I am so sorry about this.

*****

Render, you are an intelligent person however you waste it... just imagine if you didn't insult Osaid your previous post would have said this:

--- Begin ---
Dear Osaid.

The killing began in 1904, continued through the 1920's and 1930's. Hamas is the Moslem Brotherhood, born in 1928. Twenty years before Israel was born.

Israel did not kick anybody out and those that left most certainly did not number any 750,000.

Lebanon and Iraq refused entry to any refugees, even as Iraq, Syria, and Egypt were persecuting and expelling their own Jewish populations. Most Moslem nations followed suit through the 1950 and 1960's. Expelling Jews.

The solution is to end the terrorism.

Re:non-violent activists.
These people support terrorists and genocide.

R
--- End ---

Now that could have been useful.

Do you see the difference? It is called R.E.S.P.E.C.T. You showed none of it in your first post, but you could have expressed yourself perfectly well while remaining polite.

Your most recent post is... well - I do not really know what to say.

R: "Osaid lied. I called for the reformation of the genocidal death cult of Islam, before it kills us all."

Render, Osaid is not a liar. Islam is not a genocidal death cult. Islam is not going to kill us all.


R: Osaids lies are designed to both hide and perpetuate an ongoing genocide. I’m nailing a sign to the mosque doors that says Mo the pedophile ain’t making the trip into the 21st century.

Osaid is not a liar. Osaid is not designing his statements in order to deceive you or anyone else.

Do you have any clue about how -ve you are - rather than protecting Israel against the genocide you are afraid of it is you that makes it more likely.

We are suffering and we are at a great risk. That fact, however, does not in any way excuse any of your comments. If anything, people like you are responsible for creating hatred against Israel and the Jewish people.

If the only Jewish people I met were like you, I might even develop some sympathy for the bloody Nazis. You are a revolting disrespectful individual for your hateful words. Thank God you are also an insignificant microbe.

Render - It is people like you that perpetuate this conflict, not Osaid who is a decent person looking for answers. You have NO RIGHT to attack anyone here.

To me, the very worst insult is calling someone a liar; attacking their integrity and thus preventing them from even being able to defend themselves. Some people do lie, but you are jumping to conclusions.

You are not God, you could be wrong. When you close yourself to other people you become a problem, not a solution. When you insult other people who you know nothing about, you become a problem, not a solution.

Osaid actually helps save lives, but you don’t know that because you jump the gun and assume the worst with your Nazi-like hatred. It is exactly the same when people hate Jews and call them Jew liars… here, let me present your mirror (see the end of this post).


R: I have considerably more than a “basic” understanding of history. I’ve spent much of the last 33 years studying this very history. Osaid didn’t come in here with a misunderstanding, he didn’t ask any questions. Osaid made statements, that he considered to be factual.

Exactly Render, and with your knowledge which is probably far superior to my own you could help make things better. Unfortunately you chose to be rude, assuming and racist – as a result you have no place here.


R: You are entitled to your opinion. Nice to know where you stand. I think I already knew, when you didn’t take the opportunity to correct Osaids lies.

It is a matter of priorities. How can I stand by and correct Osaid when we have racists here. You are first. What Osaid said is second priority.

Ok, here is your mirror:

--- Mirror to Render ---

When the master race kills pal. civilians, the master race calls
it the collateral damage of a w a r - if the pal. kill hebr. civilians,
they are called terrorists by the same master race.

The master race law simply declares, that the master race al-
ways steals, robs, kidnaps, murders and deports lawfully - while
their victims are terrorists by definition.

That’s usual master race garbage.

--- End ---

Revolting, isn’t it? Well that is what you sound like Render. I do not care if you know your history and have studied it for 33 years or 333 years, you are a racist and there is nothing more to say.

What a shame.

Steven said...

I reject racism of all kinds absolutely. It is like a poisonous disease.

Steven said...

Sorry, but... I really hate racism.

As you can see!

Red Tulips said...

Steven,

Rock on!

Render said...

-Q: Like I said, it’s your blog, you make the call. It is only my opinion that lies like those that Osaid posted here must be countered. The name calling goes hand in hand with the call for a final solution to the “Jewish problem.”

-I’ve read Stevens posts available here. I’m aware of his public stands. Everywhere except this thread…

===

-Steven…

-Nope. I would never have lied by starting a rebuttal to Osaid with, “Dear.” Be that as it may, let’s move along to your PC re-writing of my last post.

-The end of most terrorism will coincide with an end to the killing of Jews for being Jewish.

“…non-violent activists”

-That’s a contradiction of terms. This is a war of absolutes. One the Jews never started.

-So, I’m certain I would have left it worded exactly as I first wrote it.

===

“Do you see the difference? It is called R.E.S.P.E.C.T. You showed none of it in your first post, but you could have expressed yourself perfectly well while remaining polite.”

-Respect is not given, it must be earned. Terrorism, genocide and those that support them will never earn respect, only fear and hatred. Why does Osaid seek a dialogue here, in this thread? Why make the statements he made? Why even question what the “solution” is, when the solution is as obvious as; Stop killing Jews.

“Render, Osaid is not a liar, Islam is not a genocidal death cult. Islam is not going to kill us all.”

-Islam, as it is practiced by the majority of the Moslem world, is most certainly a genocidal death cult – At least to Jews. The history, both recent and classical, provides plenty of evidence to that effect. Does Osaid, who I’m quite certain is more knowledgeable of the Koran than I, have an answer for Sura 109? Do you? Where is the Moslem Martin Luther?

-Western philosophers and modern rock stars having proclaiming the death of the Judaeo-Christian God for quite some time. Perhaps Allah is more easily offended? Perhaps you see the artistic value in Piss Christ? Or not…

“Osaid is not a liar. Osaid is not designing his statements in order to deceive you or anyone else.”

-Suppose for the sake of argument, Osaid apologized for using statements whose lack of veracity he might have been unaware of, whose sources I am well aware of. I suppose I would then owe him an apology. Until then…

“Do you have any clue about how –ve you are – rather than protecting Israel against the genocide you are afraid of it is you that makes it more likely.”

-I should let you clean that up so it makes better sense, but I think I get the gist of it. I’m openly calling for a reformation of the third largest religion on the planet, not the genocide of all Moslems. Not once in this thread, or any place else, have I called for the death of any living human beings. I’m a Jew, who has lost family members to Nazi’s and to Islamic terrorists, not only is it NOT my responsibility to make this reformation happen; I obviously have a biased opinion.

“We are suffering and we are at great risk. That fact, however, does not in any way excuse any of your comments.”

-Q will be the judge of that, here.

“If anything, people like you are responsible for creating more hatred against Israel and the Jewish people.”

-I’m not sure it’s possible to create more hatred than the last 2000 years, (or 200 if you prefer), has accounted for, but you go ahead and plumb the depths if you must. I’m sure you’ll find a reason you can borrow.

“If the only Jewish people I met were like you, I might even develop some sympathy for the bloody Nazi’s.”

-Welp, you didn’t have to dig to deeply for that one, eh? Hold that thought, BNP is calling.

“You are a revolting disrespectful individual for your hateful words.”

-Ditto ol boy, ditto. When the rockets stop falling, when the suicide bombers stop walking, crawling, and tunneling under the fence, dialogue will become possible. Until then, it’s the same old same old, non-stop since 1904…

“It is people like you that perpetuate this conflict, not Osaid who is a decent person looking for answers. You have NO RIGHT to attack anyone here.”

-Why can’t I defend myself and my people from lies and slander? Why shouldn’t I? How can that even be a question? Osaid, will no doubt, be able to speak for himself, but it’s gonna be tough for him to overcome the concepts of Taqiya and Kitman, given that he’s already used PLO propaganda circa 1964 once already. This is Q’s house, not yours. I never attack, only counter-attack. Deal with it.

“To me the very worst insult is calling somebody a liar; attacking their integrity and thus preventing them from even being able to defend themselves. Some people do lie, but your jumping to conclusions.”

-Oddly, I find death threats to my family to be slightly more insulting than calling somebody a liar. To each his own morality, I suppose. I’m jumping to conclusions based on lies seen repeated before and knowledge of their sources. You can call it what you want. I call it pattern recognition.

“You are not God, you could be wrong.”

-I am oh so very aware of those two things. I’m also aware that I’ve never claimed to either to be untrue, ever.

“When you close yourself to other people you become a problem, not a solution. When you insult other people who you know nothing about, you become a problem, not a solution.”

-Hey if Osaid has a solution as to why Jews must be killed, I’d love to see it. So far, I haven’t seen anything web-based to offer any hope of that either.

“Osaid actually helps save lives, but you don’t know that because you jump the gun and assume the worst with your Nazi-like hatred. It is exactly the same when people hate Jews and call them Jews liars…”

-Nice Stevie, play the moral equivalency card. You’re calling me a Nazi? I’m not the one shilling for genocide around here, am I? Osaid saves lives; my cousin is one of the top ranked heart surgeons in the world, why should he have to die for Allah?

…and I’m the racist of first priority? Once again, (read out loud), I, Render, am not advocating genocide of any race or religion, creed or color. I’m simply stating that the actions of modern day Islam point to a badly overdue need for a reformation. It’s not up to me how they accomplish this reformation, as long as they quit killing Jews for the sake of being Jews.

Guess who the alligators are coming after next?

MIRRORS
BROKEN,
R

Red Tulips said...

Render,

Here is my opinion on Islam.

Islamists do wish for the death of all Jews. If they had their way, they will exterminate all Jews from the planet. I know this and my eyes are open about it. But Islam is not the same as Islamofacism.

Islam needs a reformation, and the public opinion poll of Muslims worldwide is very troubling, HOWEVER, I think it is a disservice to Islam to say that the religion as a whole is hate based. In a world with 1.5 billion Muslims, clearly Islam has many incarnations.

There is a legitimate concern regarding the increasing fantacism of Muslims worldwide, and of the particular verses of the Koran which justify the fantacism.

However, it is just as unjustified to say Islam is a religion of peace as it is to say it is a religion of war.

Islam is a belief structure that has many facets to it, some good and some bad. The problem is not the document, the Koran, which are just words on a page. The problem is with the way it has been interpreted to justify atrocities.

But that said, the Koran also has been used to justify acts of kindness. The world is not clear cut either way.

The key is to shed light onto the hate and lies, and hope that the truth comes through.

But you can guarantee no one will listen to you if you unfairly castigate an entire religion.

Red Tulips said...

Render,

I hope you continue to post here, but simply tone down on the rhetoric labeling all Muslims a certain way. I will admit that a majority of Muslims in the world seem to hate Jews (based on recent public opinion polls), but that doesn't mean that all Muslims do, or that even those who hate Jews want to kill them or will kill them.

The ultimate goal should be to inform and engage as many people as possible. Hopefully then some change for the better will result.

Render said...

Miss R...

Yes dear.

MUMBLE
GRUMBLE,
R

Osaid Rasheed said...

/..Osaid actually helps save lives, but you don’t know that because you jump the gun and assume the worst with your Nazi-like hatred. It is exactly the same when people hate Jews and call them Jew liars… here, let me present your mirror (see the end of this post).
../
thanks Steven

Osaid Rasheed said...

Miss R :

tiya re right :
../ I hope you continue to post here, but simply tone down on the rhetoric labeling all Muslims a certain way. I will admit that a majority of Muslims in the world seem to hate Jews (based on recent public opinion polls), but that doesn't mean that all Muslims do, or that even those who hate Jews want to kill them or will kill them./

yes, a majority of muslims in the ARAB world hate ISRAELIS. Mostly related to wts happening in Palestine.

I am expressing my thoughts and beliefs, which might be right and sometimes might be wrong.I was practicing this right in your blog.

good day

Osaid Rasheed said...

render :
Hello

/...Israel did not kick anybody out and those that left most certainly did not number any 750,000
.../

Was the number 700000 or 500000 ?? well..its not a big difference.Same crime.

Anyway , to elaborate :
/...(in 1948)
more than 750,000 Palestinians (80% of the population) had fled and 531 (50%) Palestinian villages were de-populated and destroyed by Israeli forces. One-third fled to the West Bank, one-third fled to the Gaza Strip, and the remaining population became scattered throughout Jordan, Syria, and Lebanon and in other countries throughout the world.
40,000 Palestinians were internally displaced within the new Israeli state. Many lost their homes and land and few were allowed to return despite the fact that they later became Israeli citizens.
55% of Palestinians fled due to Haganah and Israeli military plans targeted at depopulating and destroying strategic Arab areas areas, 15% fled due to attacks by Lehi and Irgun terrorist forces and 14% fled due to psychological warfare (whispering campaigns), direct evacuations ordered by the Israeli forces and general fear due to Israeli military assault.2
Jewish forces committed 34 massacres and approximately 13,000 Palestinians were killed during the war.3 Whole Palestinian villages and towns were also completely cleared.


...........................

the UNRWA.org site :
WHO IS A PALESTINE REFUGEE?


"Under UNRWA's operational definition, Palestine refugees are persons whose normal place of residence was Palestine between June 1946 and May 1948, who lost both their homes and means of livelihood as a result of the 1948 Arab-Israeli conflict. UNRWA's services are available to all those living in its area of operations who meet this definition, who are registered with the Agency and who need assistance. UNRWA's definition of a refugee also covers the descendants of persons who became refugees in 1948. The number of registered Palestine refugees has subsequently grown from 914,000 in 1950 to more than four million in 2002, and continues to rise due to natural population growth.


Anyone who reads the above INTERNATIONAL and PROFESSIONAL statistics done by the worlds largest and oldest org specialized in refugees all over the world ( the UN ) would believe my lies !!

Osaid Rasheed said...

regarding Plaestinian Refugees..


Add this info to your knowledge :

International law demands that neither occupation nor sovereignty diminish the rights of ownership. Therefore, the land and property of Palestinian refugees remains their own and they are legally entitled to return to it.

UN General Assembly Resolution 194 (1) states that refugees and their descendants have a right to compensation and repatriation to their original homes and land due to “loss of or damage to property, which, under principles of international law or in equity should be made good by the government or authorities responsible”.6
The Principle of Self Determination, adopted by the UN in 1947, guarantees the right to ownership and domicile in one’s own country. This principle was explicitly applied in 1969 and thereafter to the Palestinian people, including “the legality of the People’s struggle for self- determination and liberation.”
The Fourth Geneva Convention (Article 49) prohibits “individual or mass forcible transfers…regardless of their motives” and calls for evacuated persons to be “transferred back to their homes as soon as hostilities in the area of question have ceased.
Article 13 (2) of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights reaffirms the right of every individual to leave and return to his own country.
The denial of the right of return for Palestinian Arabs is a breach of Article 2 and Article 5(d) of the Convention on the Elimination of all Forms of Racial Discrimination.
Israel remains in violation of Article 12 of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, which states that “no one shall be arbitrarily deprived of the right to enter his own country.”
UN General Assembly Resolution 3236 (1974), subsection 2, upholds the rights of the Palestinians to return to their homes and property.
UN General Assembly Resolution 52/62 (1997) reaffirms that Palestinians refugees are entitled to their property and the income derived from it.

source ; dozen international organizations

If you are interested in hearing more check this site :

http://www.un.org/unrwa/refugees/whois.html
It has many links, too.

good day steven, and all

Osaid Rasheed said...

render :

I will avoid using my numbers or words and i will try to refer to international organizations.
yet i am sure that you will surely have no problem attacking and suspecting the integrety and honesty of the whole international body.
( UN and its devisions, Amnesty, Human Rights Watch, Israeli Physicians for Human Right, B'etselem, etc ).. They all learned from me : they all tell lies !!

If I were you I would be smarter and argue in something else, like the Kassam in Gaza or the Suicide bombings. In this aspect you might have some hope of convincing others in something. But suspecting facts like occupation and refugees , this is something you wont be able to proof to a drunken monkey.

Osaid Rasheed said...

render..

what was this " allah must die " ???
You think yourself in a yahoo chat room ??

heheheheheh

It is 8 am here and you really made me laugh early !

LOL

Osaid Rasheed said...

Miss r :
/...There is a legitimate concern regarding the increasing fantacism of Muslims worldwide, and of the particular verses of the Koran which justify the fantacism.

However, it is just as unjustified to say Islam is a religion of peace as it is to say it is a religion of war.

Islam is a belief structure that has many facets to it, some good and some bad. The problem is not the document, the Koran, which are just words on a page. The problem is with the way it has been interpreted to justify atrocities.

But that said, the Koran also has been used to justify acts of kindness. The world is not clear cut either way.

The key is to shed light onto the hate and lies, and hope that the truth comes through.

But you can guarantee no one will listen to you if you unfairly castigate an entire religion. /

good points.
All 3 religions have such 'fantacism' as you prefer to call it. I dont want and I dont like to go through religions , lets just keep them aside.

My religion as a muslim asks me to ACCEPT others and respect the differences amongst religions.So does your religion say.Period

Red Tulips said...

The UN actually does tell lies and is not an unbiased organization. Same with Amnesty International.

The UN has Sudan on the Human Rights Council, and has the gaul to say ISRAEL is the worst violator of human rights. Please. Amnesty International, on the other hand, also similarly has a singular target against Israel, despite the existence of Iran, Saudi Arabia, China, Sudan, etc etc etc. I could go on but you get the point. It's a joke.

Also, Israel did not kick out Palestinians in 1948 so much as the fact as Palestinians FLED - some of it to declare war on Israel, some just because they were told to flee by their Nazi supporting leader, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, and some just to escape a war zone. This fact gets mixed up amidst everything. Afterwards, Israel did not accept back those Palestinians who fled Israel - treating those who declared war on them and those who fled the same regardless of motive. But given they were dealing with a population bent on their destruction who just waged war on them - none of this is surprising.

Of course, what gets no notice is the fact that Jordan took Palestinian land from 1948-1967, and commenced upon treating the Palestinians like dirt. Jordan killed more Palestinians than Israel ever could or would.

One last thing. All religions have their upsides and downsides, but the bottom line is they all can be and have been used to justify hatred. This is part of why I am atheist. It may also be part of why Steven is atheist, but he can speak for himself.

Red Tulips said...

I want to add that Israel has a population of 20% Arab Israelis - clearly they, unlike most of the Muslim world, did not kick out the nonJews. If they wanted to kick them out, they would have done a better job of it all!

Red Tulips said...

I want to add one more thing:

The public opinion poll in question showed a majority of Muslims in the world hate the JEWS, not just Israelis.

Red Tulips said...

Oh, and one last thing for real.

Christianity, for all its numerous faults, has at least undergone a reformation. You do not see vast swaths of Christians advocating a world straight from the Middle Ages. This contrasts with vast swaths of the Middle East, where women are stuck in burkas and have no rights, honor killings are rampant, and there is a death cult of "kill the infidel."

Let's contrast India and Pakistan - two nations right next to one another. One is Hindu, the other Muslim. It's obvious which one values human rights and the other does not. It's obvious where science and learning are encouraged.

Furthermore, Muslims are engaged in the worst sort of self denial. See: Big Pharoah's article "On Muslim Silence." http://www.bigpharaoh.com/2006/06/26/on-muslim-silence/

Is the problem necessarily Islam the religion? Partially. But Islam has been interpreted to justify acts of kindness and charity as well. I generally try and avoid making broad pronouncements that a religion as vast as Islam and people as numerous as Muslims are all good or all bad.

But make no mistake about it. There is a problem with Islam itself.

Steven said...

"International law demands that neither occupation nor sovereignty diminish the rights of ownership. Therefore, the land and property of Palestinian refugees remains their own and they are legally entitled to return to it."

In which case Israel is a Jewish land.

Osaid Rasheed said...

/...“We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves.” Chairman Heilbrun of the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the mayor of Tel Aviv, October 1983.../

meaningless comparison!!

Steven ( last coment ) :
funny !

to add something :
There is no problem with Islam. The problem i in the way you see Islam.

Red Tulips said...

Osaid Rasheed:

There's no problem with honor killings, the subjugation of women, the endorsement of terror, fatwas issued to those who challenge the established order, and the flat out hatred of gays, eh? And that's just off the top of my head!

Right. No problem with Islam. I realize that some say this is the "twisting" of the Koran. But the problem is that verses of the Koran are quoted to justify ALL of it, and reformers face fatwas within the religion.

I am positive that the mayor of Tel Aviv either didn't say what you quoted, or it was taken out of context. You will have to link me to the article in which he said that.

Red Tulips said...

Osaid Rasheed:

One more thing. Technically, Jews were kicked off the land by Muslims, if you go back 1,000 years. Much of the reason why there were few Jews living in Israel at the start of the Zionist movement is directly attributable to the actions of Muslims.

Somewhat ironic, no?

Render said...

When Mecca was nothing but a funny shaped rock on the ground, Medina was a 100% Jewish city.

Can we have that back as well?

RHETORICALLY,
R

Anonymous said...

MIFTAH (www.miftah.org)

Of the “memorable quotes” featured on MIFTAH’s Web site (some of which have already been debunked in Part I), the following is attributed to one Chairman Heilbrun:

We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves.

Source given: Chairman Heilbrun of the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the mayor of Tel Aviv, October 1983

Investigation: The quote is found on numerous anti-Israel sites, in addition to MIFTAH’s, but the facts do not check out. While Shlomo Lahat was indeed re-elected as mayor of Tel Aviv in 1983, no record was found of any “Chairman Heilbrun.” The quote was traced to a 1988 book, The Hidden History of Zionism, by radical Marxist Ralph Schoenman (dismissed by mainstream historians as a crazed conspiracy theorist), and is one of many bogus quotes in the book attributed to Israeli leaders. According to Schoenman’s footnote, the quote by Heilbrun was hearsay relayed to him in private conversations:

Cited by Fouzi El-Asmar and Salih Baransi during discussions with the author, October 1983

Needless to say, Schoenman’s scholarship, upon which many anti-Israel Web sites depend, leaves much wanting. CAMERA contacted former Mayor Lahat who attested that he has never employed, known or heard of any such person as “Chairman Heilbrun,” and that the reported incident never took place. Lahat also emphasized that he would never allow any of his employees to make such statements, as it completely contradicts his own sentiments about Palestinians.

Summary: Fabricated quote, fabricated source.

Red Tulips said...

Thanks, anon!

I am very familiar with fabricated quotes being used to say how Israelis are evil. Oldest trick in the book. This is why I asked for sources.

Red Tulips said...

Render,

So true about Medina! Thanks for reminding me!

Citisucks said...

If you people want to know the truth about who is really killing who than you should check out http://wakeupfromyourslumber.blogspot.com

Steven said...

Go to a website where the owners and posters spout out words like "genocide" and "apartheid" when they do not actually know what they mean?

(Yes, I asked for definitions.)

Red Tulips said...

Steven,

If I want to know what the Palestinians are thinking from a non-hysterical perspective, I will read Osaid's blog. I am quite familiar with wakeupfromyourslumber, and have had public spats with the owner for allowing neonazis and hate mongers free reign on her board.

Osaid, that was meant as a compliment re: your board.

Steven said...

It is an improvement from wakemeupfrommyexcessivesouldestroyingracism, but that doesn't say much.

I think Osaid is becomming more and more "hysterical".

Steven said...

Heya Osaid:
"My religion as a muslim asks me to ACCEPT others and respect the differences amongst religions.So does your religion say.Period"

Does that include Hinduism? Does that include Buddhism? Does that include Athiesm?

*Patiently awaits your answer*.