Thursday, June 29, 2006

So...what's the solution?

I have been thinking long and hard about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, and the recent news that 64 Hamas officials were arrested. I think the solution is simply to engage in target assassinations with every Hamas/Fatah/PRC/Islamic Jihad member who plans terror. Period. Arresting them accomplishes zippo. These people will be out of jail in no time. Having trials accomplishes nothing. These people will claim it's a human right violation to even have a trial in "Infidel Israel." Meanwhile, open warfare in populated areas will lead to massive civilian death. So why not just let Mossad accomplish what it needs to accomplish? Why not just target assassinate the monsters who kill, maim, fire rockets at Israel, and engage in general unadulterated mayhem? Does it violate the Geneva Conventions? Sure. But guess what? The Palestinians have shat upon the Geneva Conventions so many times, the conventions might as well not even exist. There is no "convention" if only one side is upholding it. What do you think? I want to see if anyone can change my mind. I am willing and WANT TO listen to other solutions. Are there any other solutions???

42 comments:

The Raccoon said...

No, there are no other solutions. These people (and I am badly stretching the definition here) do not care for anything but their misguided "honor" - doing anything to cover for their phallic insecurity. Everyone suffers from them, and they have proven to be incorrigible time and time again.

As much as I hate it, assassinations seem to be the best solution. Every breath these terrorists take - given their mentality of an evil gorilla on really bad acid - is endagering everyone, including Palestinians themselves.

It seems that the Israeli government has finally understood that red lines have been crossed... a few decades too late, but better late than never.

ChiefMommy Owl said...

I admit to not knowing a solution, but I think we are very far beyond, "Give peace a change."

Targeted assasinations don't really work because every time you cut off one head, two more grow in its place.

I just can't believe the antisemitism that is running rampant on the internet. I can't believe that people are really believing the things they type. I want to know, what would people have Israel do? How long should Israel wait for diplomacy and peace treaties to work? Why should Israel evacuate more land whe the terrorist will use that land to fire deeper and deeper into Israel. Today its Sderot, after the next evacuation they will reach Tel Aviv.

When will people wake up? The Palestinians do not want to share the area with the Jews. They hate us and teach hatred of us to the next generation. They want to push us into the sea and they state so publicly. What would all of these liberal mouth pieces have Israel do?

NEWSFLASH: Jews do not control the world!

Sorry for the rant, been reading other blogs :(

Sara
babyowls.blogspot.com

Red Tulips said...

Sara,

I agree with you completely, except for one thing...

I think we have seen targeted assassinations work. The replacements are not as well trained and lack the same skills as the ones they replaced. And there is only a limited supply of assassins in the world...

I hate war and wish there was a better solution, but right now I am at a loss.

Steven said...

We have to obide by our own moral values, and as such we should still treat our enemies with respect. Targetted assassinations are an option, however if we can put someone behind bars it is far better for several reasons:

1) This shows our love for live and thus our superiour moral values.

2) We can get information out of them.

3) It is more of a defeat for the enemy to have them behind bars than dead. They are not a considdered a mayrtyr... my favourite example of this:

“We are not going to surrender. We are going to face our destiny with courage,” he told Al-Jazeera television from the jail...

JERICHO, West Bank (AP) - Six Palestinian militants holed up inside a Palestinian prison surrendered to Israeli forces.

LoL

Steven said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Albion Moonlight said...

"target assassinations with every Hamas/Fatah/PRC/Islamic Jihad member who plans terror. Period."

Yeah, show those terrorists how it's done. Good thinking. Did you pick up this idea from George W. Bush?

I think this is a pathetic idea, not a 'solution' at all, but simply begetting more violence. I'm glad you all feel so morally superior for collectively punishing the entire Palestinian population for the kidnapping of one soldier by a militant group.

I suspect you guys would not be satisfied with anything short of anhilation of the Palestinian people (or the Arab world in general).

Go ahead, baby mommy owl, tell me how I don't know anything. Remind me of your moral superiority.

Sorry Miss R, gotta disagree with you on this "solution".

Steven said...

"I think this is a pathetic idea, not a 'solution' at all, but simply begetting more violence. I'm glad you all feel so morally superior for collectively punishing the entire Palestinian population for the kidnapping of one soldier by a militant group."

Heya Albion.

For the purposes of this discussion I will call the Arabs in question Palestinians.

The Palestinians are a society and have to take responsibility for their actions. As a society they choose to attack Israeli civilians, that is their collective fault. They have collectively decided to support a terrorist government which is drectly responsible for attacking Israeli civilians, and further more, refuses to stop others commiting terrorism against Israel.

Unless the Palestinians reject terrorism, they are responsible.

Read: Tough!

"I suspect you guys would not be satisfied with anything short of anhilation of the Palestinian people (or the Arab world in general)."

That is disgusting. What we are not satisfied with is Israel standing by and not responding to a society which demands its destruction and targets its civilians.

I also disagree with this solution - it is a desperate solution to a very desperate situation.

Red Tulips said...

Building on what Steven said:

My thinking re: the targetted assassinations is that this would be a solution that would avoid civilian death. I never once said "annhiliate them all." In contrast, I said "go after the suicide bomb planners."

It is with an eye towards minimizing civilian deaths that I thought of this. The only other alternative is an all out street fight which will surely lead to many civilian deaths.

Steven said...

I suppose if we go on an all out offensive against the Palestinians terrorist infrastructure we could cripple their ability to attack us; and thus the conflict would be stopped by force which would then save lives in the long run.

What you propose is an all out war against the terrorist groups. It could be enivitable.

If we did this, it would also grant us an increased humanitarian responsibility to the Palestinians... which is very difficult to face.

Not because we do not wish to help the Palestinians but because the Palestinians have been taught for generations that murdering a Jew is the ultimate desire of God because Jews are so tretcherous. A lot of Palestinians are filled with a racist hatred. Thus challenging this perspective will be a lot of work.

*****

I agree with your idea in principle because Israel is at war and it has to act like it. However if we can put each terrorist on trial and then behind bars I think it is an improvement to killing them in an air-strike.

I think that Israel should uphold high morals even if our enemies do not. :)

Steven said...

Typo:
"enivitable" = "inevitable"
"tretcherous" = "treacherous"

Please excuse the spelling.

felix said...

Miss R,
I look at this as more than an Israeli problem. The groups you name are Radical Islamist or Islamofascist groups. My own view on Islamofascists--people who believe in violent jihad, establishing Sharia law, and killing or converting everyone else--is that they cannot be allowed freedom of movement in any country in which they are not in the majority. So in the UK or USA, radical islamists (not moderate Muslims) should be deported. This is not now being done. For example, in the UK there are known Islamofascists who live there and are under surveillance, but are not arrested unless they commit (or conspire to commit) a crime. This is insanity.

The trouble with Gaza is that a majority of the inhabitants appear to support Islamofascists insamuch as they elected an openly Islamofascist government. In a sense, Israel already deported the Gaza Islamofascists by declaring that Gaza is no longer a part of Israel. So Gaza is now really a country bordering Israel with which Israel is at war.

I know I am rambling, but I think the point here is that in war, the leadership of the country you are at war with are fair targets. So I think you are on the the right track with more targeted assasinations.

ChiefMommy Owl said...

I suspect you guys would not be satisfied with anything short of anhilation of the Palestinian people (or the Arab world in general).
Well, when it comes to me, you suspect wrong. Everytime I hear that innocents on either side of this struggle are killed it makes me ill. What I don't understand is how you can blame Israel for the whole mess? When I was younger, some of our neighbors were forced to move so that a thruway could be built. Would an appropriate response be for them to go blow themselves up at the county building? Why should the Palestinians be freed from taking responsibility for their actions?

Go ahead, baby mommy owl, tell me how I don't know anything. Remind me of your moral superiority.
I never said that you don't know anything. I don't even know you or remember any of your specific post. Maybe I am morally superior because I don't condone these despicable acts of terrorism for any reason. So insult me all you want, but answer any of my questions above starting with: What would you have Israel do?

Sara
babyowls.blogspot.com

felix said...

Stop Terror at Its Source
A return to targeted killing might improve Israeli security.


See Michael Oren article

The Raccoon said...

Yes, targeted assassinations work better than imprisonment. Israeli prisons are simply too linient - it is by far too easy for terrorists to manage terror attacks from behind the prison bars, as was the case with the Fruishake Ahmed Yassin. He did have some trouble continuing with his monstrous actions after an IAF missile sent him to his long-denied 72 raisins.

Sorry if I sound gleeful over the man's death - but this mass-murderer's demise assures the continued existence of hundreds, if not thousands, of other people.

Red Tulips said...

Felix,

Thanks for the link! Michael Oren pretty much stated what has been on my mind lately.

*sighs*

I wish this were a better world...

Steven said...

It can be. :)

Red Tulips said...

Steven,

If the world will be a better one, it is because there are people like you in it. :-)

I spoke about this all with my brother today, and I told him how upset I am that the only solution I can think of for this crisis is to engage in targetted assassinated. I am generally against murder, but when these monsters order the murder of so many countless people, I view this as taking a life to prevent the future taking of more lives.

These issues are very difficult for me to wrestle with - there are no idealists when you examine the Israeli-Palestinian conflict.

Osaid Rasheed said...

Raccoon and Steven :

' no other solution ' for targeting Hamas's leaders and kiling them..!!!

Actually I don't blame Hamas after hearing wt both of you said : Hamas and both of you have reached the same level of thinking and the same decisions : Hamas decided to use violence against Israel ( which is an unethical an illegal act ) to stand in the face of occupation ( which is a legitimate and ethical position ). Both of you, on the other hand have decided that you should target Hamas and kill all its leaders.
Go ahead with yur plans !!!

Osaid Rasheed said...

Let me just tell you of the IDF target assasinations :

1.The IDF targeted a Hamas leader ( shihada ). Intelligence information said he was HOME and a decision was taken to bomb the whole building he was sleeping in that night , killing 17 other civilians most of which were children and women, sleeping.
That was a heroic " targeted assasination " !!!!!

2. The IDF targeted a 'wanted' hamas member in Ramallah.The intelligence info were 'inaccurate '!! which resluted in targeting a car ( the wrong car ) killing a family of 4, injuring other 5. Three of the killed were students under 10yrs.

3. IDF launched a huge attack on nablus, with few tens of jeeps and hummers and tanks, Appatchis and intelligence to target a 'wanted ' hamas member in northern West bank. The whole city is put under curfew, more than 50 thousand people are put under curfew for more than a full day, students not allowed to reach their schools, ambulances stopped all the way.
The result : a nother heroic assasination of a Hamas member. Another few civilians injured. A whole building blown up, and infrastructure serioussly damaged.

These are only examples of your targeted assasinations.MOre collective punishment and more violations to lives of ALL palestinians.

Shame on you !

Red Tulips said...

Osaid:

I am not advocating that sort of targeted assassination, where civilians are injured. I am advocating it Mossad-style, up close, and EXTREMELY targeted. Think James Bond, only with Israel. (and yes, Mossad has done things like that in the past)

I am quite aware of how the IDF has bungled targeted assassinations. That's why I specified it as Mossad, not IDF.

Red Tulips said...

Oh, and Steven did not advocate any sort of targeted assassination. I just want that one clarified!

Red Tulips said...

I want to add a postscript. It's because I desire avoiding collective punishment for Palestinians while ending terror to Israel that I think targeted assassination of Hamas/Fatah/PRC/Islamic Jihad leaders who plan terror may be the only way.

Of course, the Palestinians have it within their power to end the terror. They could rise and up revolutionize, and make their leaders accountable for their actions. They can demand peace. I have yet to see a single Palestinian - not ONE - rally for the end of suicide bombings.

It does make one sort of assume they implicitly think it's acceptable. Then there's the public opinion poll recently conducted...

http://pewglobal.org/reports/display.php?ReportID=253

And of course Dershowitz famously wrote that the suicide bomb planners WANT Israel to kill civilians.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1150885840047&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Overall, in this ugly situation, the only solution I see is to take out the monstrous leaders who plan attacks on civilians, and do it Mossad-style. This is a state of war, and the only alternative is an all out street fight, which will necessarily involve massive civilian death.

felix said...

Osaid,
I take it that if every targeted assasination could be done with pin-point accuracy--with no civilians killed--then you would be OK with the concept?

I agree with Miss R that the targeted assasination policy helps avoid issues of collective punishment. Also, as to Gaza, Israel should military re-occupy that part of Gaza (I assume it is only a part) from where the Kassam missiles are being fired. And then say that Isarel would leave that area if (ever) they could be assured that no more missiles would be fired from those areas.

As to the kidnapped soldier, if Israel is at war with Hamas and Hamas is at war with Israel, then that soldier would become a prisoner of war. As would be the Hamas ministers that Israel has taken into custody. So, first, let's try to send the Red Cross (if possible) to check the condition of the soldier. And then the Red Cross can check the condition of the Hamas Ministers, etc. The point here is that if Hamas is in a state of war with Israel, which it is, then Isarel should say that it is in a state of war with Hamas.

Steven said...

Warning: Long post!!!


Heya Osaid. Welcome to CultureForAll. :)


Please hear me out.

O: "Hamas decided to use violence against Israel (which is an unethical an illegal act) to stand in the face of occupation (which is a legitimate and ethical position)"

I do not recognise what you call the occupation. I assure you that I am not saying this out of malice. This is a major issue that we should keep discussing.


O: "Both of you, on the other hand have decided that you should target Hamas and kill all its leaders. Go ahead with your plans !!!"

I do not support targeted assassinations except as a last resort. Hamas is an international terrorist organisation which is responsible for targeting and murdering many hundreds of innocent Israeli civilians. Israel targets the Hamas and the Islamic Jihad. Ideally I would prefer these people to be in jail; however they can not remain free.

For the sake of peace, Al Fatah and Hamas have to be removed from the scene. What have Hamas or Fatah done for you? The suffering in Gaza is directly due to the fact the Palestinians have kidnapped Gilad - all they need to do is let him go.


O: "The IDF targeted a Hamas leader (shihada). Intelligence information said he was HOME and a decision was taken to bomb the whole building he was sleeping in that night, killing 17 other civilians most of which were children and women, sleeping. That was a heroic 'targeted assassination!!!!!"

I hear ya Osaid. If possible I think the IDF should arrest terrorists. I do not know the risks in this circumstance; however I have a lot of faith in the IDF. They would not have targeted that man without careful thought. (Of course, the IDF are not impervious to mistakes though, therefore it is important to keep a watch on these things in order to make sure that we operate to the highest standards possible.)

Israel has frequently put its soldiers on the line to reduce the threat to Palestinian civilians - a good example of this is in Jenin.

Did people complain when Germans were killed in WW2 when England bombed their cities? No.

Jenin was infested with terrorists. Israel could have carpeted bombed the area, however Israel is unique again in that she values the life of its enemy.

Israel sent in ground troops in street fighting to root out terrorists – Israeli soldiers lost their lives as a result of protecting Palestinian lives. Not only that, the Palestinians tried (and failed this time) to present the story as a massacre.

I know where you are coming from though Osaid – the 17 people who died in that strike were most likely killed for no crime but living in squalid conditions near terrorists... I do not wish to sound harsh, but that is a consequence of war. This must be minimised as much as possible, however it is simply impossible to prevent civilian casualties when terrorists live and operate amongst them.

Recent Pictures (notice the children) :
[ Picture 1, Picture 2 ]



"These are only examples of your targeted assassinations. More collective punishment and more violations to lives of ALL Palestinians. Shame on you!"

Osaid, we are in a difficult situation. Israelis are being targeted by rockets, blown up, kidnapped, murdered... and the Palestinians do nothing. Israel is forced to respond by targeting areas where the Palestinians launch rockets at us.

We even get condemned even for this, and from across the board. Even the Football Association which has nothing to do with the conflict decided to condemn Israel for shooting at a football pitch, which happened to double up as a platform to fire rockets at Israeli homes.

It is a terrible shame what we have to do, but what is even more of a shame is that most Palestinians support terrorist groups that represent them.

Israel has to respond and that means that the people who are involved in these attacks (including planning these attacks) are a legitimate target. Even so, I would prefer these people to be arrested if the risk is not too great to our soldiers. I am honoured by the IDF for doing the job and protecting our citizens. This reality is disgusting, but the alternative is to sit there and die slowly...

WU-TANG CLAN - Never again:
Moving targets who walk with the star in their sleeve
Forever marked with a number, tattooed to your body
Late night, eyes closed, clutched to my shotty
Having visions, flashes of death camps and prisons no provisions
Deceived by the devils decisions
Forced into a slave
Death before dishonor for those men who were brave
Shot and sent to their grave
Can't awaken, it's too late
Everything's been taken
I'm shaken, family, history, the making

[Chorus:]
Never again shall we march like sheep to the slaughter
Never again shall we sit and take orders
Stripped of our culture
Robbed of our name (never again)
Raped of our freedom and thrown into the flames (never again)
Forced from our families, taken from our homes
Moved from our God then burned of our bones

*****

Perhaps you can understand why the Jewish people in general have no moral qualms in dispatching terrorist organisations like Hamas who:

a) Frequently state as policy that they want to kill all the Jews.
b) Actually target our civilians and murder them in their homes, on their way to school, in hospital out-clinics... everywhere.

We value our lives and we will defend ourselves, and that sometimes includes targeting the terrorists who hide in your streets, who fund, plan, organise and carry out terrorist attacks and murder our families.

Imagine:
You choose to accept a mass murderer as your neighbour. He is attacked and you are harmed. Is it *entirely* the fault of the people targeting the mass murderer?

Could it be that the Palestinians themselves are to blame for choosing to live side by side with these terrorist groups?

The Palestinians have to kick these terrorists out. That means no PLO and no Hamas. Do you not advocate removing these terrorist groups from power yourself?



On a previous thread you said:

"As your PM said earlier ; the lives of the israelis are 'more important'."

We value our lives and the lives of our children. Yes. We have a responsibility to our own people first and foremost. I am not referring to you personally as I know that you value life... but I put it to you that Israel values the lives of Palestinians a million times more than Palestinians value the lives of Israelis.

Take care.

*Group Hug* :)


*****

Heya Miss R!

Thank you for standing up for me while I was away, you're the best. :)

"These issues are very difficult for me to wrestle with - there are no idealists when you examine the Israeli-Palestinian conflict."

There are no definite right answers because whatever we do there will be good and bad consequences, I am pleased that I do not have the weight of these major decisions on my shoulders.

“Think James Bond, only with Israel. (and yes, Mossad has done things like that in the past)”

LoL – I have the theme tune in my head now. That is how they tried to tackle Black September.

I hope its all going well. :)

Best Wishes.

Steven said...

Note: Hamas were not the group who provided that girl with explosives to blow up the hospital out-clinic, that was another terrorist group.

However...
We all know for a fact that Hamas supports these operations and would not hesitate to carry out their own. I added that video as an example of what kind of threat Israel faces. Aka. Hamas are not the only threat.

Nite nite. :)

Osaid Rasheed said...

/... Not because we do not wish to help the Palestinians but because the Palestinians have been taught for generations that murdering a Jew is the ultimate desire of God because Jews are so tretcherous. A lot of Palestinians are filled with a racist hatred. Thus challenging this perspective will be a lot of work.../

this is ONE part of the problem. the other part is the same hatred Israelis have for arabs.
I dont want to start arguing this, but I saw enough settlers in kiryat arba and in hebron who tell much about it.

Osaid Rasheed said...

Maybe the palestinians targeted a clinic or a hospital or an ambulance once or twice or maybe thrice ??

well..that was a terror and individual attack.

But what would you say when your army and political leadership do target hospitals and ambulances , killing nurses, doctors, and patienst ??

I have witnessed more than a time when israeli army fired at hospitals in Hebron. I also saw how ambulances were shot at during the last few years.

http://osaidr.blogspot.com/
check the links, too.

This is more than shameful.
I dont want just to attck you or IDF or anyone in my blogs or comments, I want to tell you that there is a serious problem that we can work on , in different attitudes, and hopefully end, or at least make better.

Right ?

Red Tulips said...

Osaid Rasheed:

Israelis filled with hatred are not the problem because they are not the dominant political force within Israel, in contrast to the Palestinians. (they elected HAMAS!)

Red Tulips said...

Osaid Rasheed:

Tell your buddies at the Red Crescent to stop using their first responder status in an illegitimate way, transporting munitions and suicide bombers. Then Israel won't fire upon Red Crescent trucks.

It's really that simple.

Osaid Rasheed said...

Miss R ;

tell your buddies at the IDF to stop targeting children and women.
and tell your buddies at the IDF to stop poisoning sheeps and demolishing the tents for the beduins to steal the land

just watch the vidoe again and see what you should tell them

Osaid Rasheed said...

Israelis filled with hatred are not the problem because they are not the dominant political force within Israel, in contrast to the Palestinians. (they elected HAMAS!)

!!!
and those who elected SHARON or SHAMIR are peacelovers ???


Have a close look at your ELECTED LEADERS and what they said :


” [The Palestinians are] beasts walking on two legs.” Menahim Begin, speech to the Knesset, quoted in Amnon Kapeliouk, “Begin and the Beasts”. New Statesman, 25 June 1982.


...............................
“There is a huge gap between us (Jews) and our enemies ¬not just in ability but in morality, culture, sanctity of life, and conscience. They are our neighbors here, but it seems as if at a distance of a few hundred meters away, there are people who do not belong to our continent, to our world, but actually belong to a different galaxy.” Israeli president Moshe Katsav. The Jerusalem Post, May 10, 2001
..............................

“We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves.” Chairman Heilbrun of the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the mayor of Tel Aviv, October 1983.
.................................

“Spirit the penniless population across the frontier by denying it employment… Both the process of expropriation and the removal of the poor must be carried out discreetly and circumspectly.” Theodore Herzl, founder of the World Zionist Organization, speaking of the Arabs of Palestine, Complete Diaries, June 12, 1895 entry. “
.................................

“We have to kill all the Palestinians unless they are resigned to live here as slaves.” Chairman Heilbrun of the Committee for the Re-election of General Shlomo Lahat, the mayor of Tel Aviv, October 1983.

.................................



there are even more DISGUSTING and RACIST quotes. Its not right to repeat the words coz this will bring their horrible memories back.

Osaid Rasheed said...

' stop using ...illegitimate way '

Ahh.. now you acknowledge the word LEGITIMATE and use it.

Is what you see in that video LEGITIMATE ?

Red Tulips said...

Osaid Rasheed:

Sharon was the one who pulled from Gaza and was all about unilateral withdrawal. So no, you are wrong.

The video is disgusting propoganda. It is a FACT that the Palestinians aim for civilians, and the IDF does all it can to avoid civilian death. The videos piece together out of context footage and pretend it's reality.

Oh, and then there's the fact that there are no true "civilians" when you look at Palestinians. I have seen pictures of 2 year olds with guns. I saw a video in which an 11 year old was recounting how all she wanted in life was shahada.

To the extent the IDF has to aim for and kill children, it's because hcildren aim to kill them.

Speaking of bedouins. They are being chased off the land by the Palestinians. That's right. They had land when Gaza was under Israeli control, and now they don't.

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/pages/ShArtVty.jhtml?sw=bedouin&itemNo=732570

Of course, this gets no publicity, because it doesn't fit into the false worldview of Israel the land stealers and Palestinians the puppy dog victims.

As far as your quotes - I could come up with dozens of quotes of Palestinian leaders. And I want to add something else. I am POSITIVE that the mayor of Tel Aviv either didn't say what he said, or it was taken out of context. And it is TRUE that the Western values of Israel ARE a galaxy away from the Islamic state that Palestine WOULD become. And re: denying employment. It was done regularly by the Palestinians, and worse! you can be KILLED merely for selling land to Jews!

So, in conclusion, your quotes are out of context and tell half the story, as does everything that you have said thus far.

Steven said...

Osaid.

"tell your buddies at the IDF to stop targeting children and women."

You are contradicting yourself. Previously you have accepted the reality - that is the IDF does not target civilians. Why?

Steven said...

"“There is a huge gap between us (Jews) and our enemies ¬not just in ability but in morality, culture, sanctity of life, and conscience. They are our neighbors here, but it seems as if at a distance of a few hundred meters away, there are people who do not belong to our continent, to our world, but actually belong to a different galaxy.” Israeli president Moshe Katsav. The Jerusalem Post, May 10, 2001"

Israelis can not understand how a mother can celebrate a mass murderer and call it a wedding with God.

Render said...

http://77.camera.org/index.asp?x_context=2&x_outlet=73&x_article=766

Y'all can stop straining to answer Osaids quotations of blood libel.

Every single one of them is false.

BY
ANOTHER
NAME,
R

Red Tulips said...

Thanks, Render!

I encountered similar misquotes/lies on "The Truth Shall Set Your Free," so I am quite familiar with the easy ability to misquote. It's a common tactic.

The thing is, the more people do that, the stronger my pro-Israeli convictions become. Quite ironic how their arguments have the opposite effect from its intentions.

Steven said...

It's very frustrating when people mis-quote.

Thanks for that link Render. :)

Render said...

Anytime.

heh...

My fathers name was Steven. My sons name is Steven...

THIS IS GONNA
HURT ME
MORE THAN
IT HURTS YOU,
R

Osaid Rasheed said...

you are always ready with your links that are only telling more lies. More and more lies to the extent that you are believing your own lies.

You are suspecting everything...

Disgusting and shameful render.

Red Tulips said...

Render proved you wrong. That's not disgusting. What's disgusting is your statement about Render providing links and facts.

So you think facts are disgusting, huh?

Steven said...

Osaid - get a grip of reality.