Wednesday, June 21, 2006

Open invitation to qrswave!

I have an open invitation to qrswave. I have stated that I believe she latently hates Jews, despite the fact that we are friends from law school, because of her website on which she asserts Israel is behind 9/11, Mossad planted most suicide bombs within Israel, and her very one sided critique of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, blaming Israel for literally any and everything that has happened, and never once, not ONCE, saying that the Palestinians may share some of the blame. She also believed that the Danish cartoons should be censored, and yet allows comments on her site which call for death to all Jews. She always says "I do not hate Jews" whenever she says such things, however, in my opinion, such a deep paranoia of ISRAEL IN PARTICULAR (the one Jewish state in the world), has to be based on at least latent hatred of the Jews. So here is my challenge to qrswave. I will issue a very public apology on my site and on your site if you are capable of saying even one (substantial) good thing that Israel has done, and one (substantial) bad thing the Palestinians have done. Name ONE THING for both sides, and do so publicly on your blog, and I will take back what I have said. That is my pledge. If you can do that, I will take back all I have said in the past about you being at least latently hateful of Jews. I will issue an apology. But you have to say something SUBSTANTIAL, and not just "Israelis eat falafel, which is yummy." You can read the public spectacle of this all on her site as well. UPDATE: Here is Qrswave's reply.

Miss R, I am not obligated to provide good press coverage for Israel. I am not a PR company. I report and comment on events as they are reported in the mainstream media that I find particularly disturbing because innocent people are killed unnecessarily and unjustifiably. I question who perpetrates attacks against Israeli civilians (attacks which I find equally horrific as those against Palestinians) when those attacks are made under questionable circumstances - I'm entitled to question. Questioning does not make me "anti-semitic." That's an absurd charge. That's like calling someone anti-American for questioning Bush's policies, or the efforts of the FBI or CIA to spy on American citizens. It's defamatory and divisive. I have nothing against Jews. I have plenty against Israeli policy as well as the policies of Bush and Co. and I am unapologetic. When I see genuine reform in Israeli policy, some end to the disproportionate killing of women and children and the endless land grabs, my opinions will change accordingly. And for the record, you and I both know that there are people, who know you personally, that know which school you attended and by extension which school I attended.

Also, I never once suggested that any Danish cartoons be censored, i.e., by the government. I repeatedly called for people to exercise their OWN good judgment when referring to others' religious beliefs. I maintain that position. So, you should restate your criticism to reflect the facts. Finally, when I question Israeli involvement in 9/11, that's all it is - QUESTIONS - suspicions based on undeniable facts that RAISE questions. What am I to do? Ignore them to be politically correct? Give me a break.Why do you care if an Israeli or a group of Israelis are involved in 9/11 anyway? Does that make you culpable by extension because you are Jewish? Absurd! You have to understand that it is YOU who are making these illogical conclusions along with other misguided individuals like Thor. I should not have to apologize for your inability to reason.

My response to her: qrswave, So you insist that Israel has done not one good policy, and the Palestinians are fully justified in their actions? Okay, just wanted to be clear. And yes, questioning American policy does not make someone "unAmerican." But engaging in conspiracy theory speculation, which you do and have done quite publicly, is quite a different story. Whenever anything happens in Israel, you question if Mossad might be responsible. Same for major American events, such as 9/11. In many ways, that is WORSE than stating outright "Israel was behind 9/11," because when someone does that, such as Mighty Thor, they are more easily branded a hater. You cloak your words in the nonsense of "I am only questioning things," when in fact no sane person would believe Israel was behind 9/11 or Mossad plants suicide bombers.I will retract what I said about the Danish cartoons on my blog, but that is it. It is interesting, of course, that you believe there should have been self censorship with respect to the Danish cartoons, but you fully allow people to post that they wish death to all Jews. (without deleting comments) One more thing. I do care about Israel. I have relatives in Israel, and I care about the continuation of Israel as a Jew and as someone who values freedom and justice. So my final comment which I have on this blog: Sorry for stating you believed the government should censor the Danish cartoons. I guess I was wrong about that. You believed individuals should have self censored. Okay, I mischaracterized your viewpoint. Sorry about that.


ChiefMommy Owl said...

My two observations on qrswaves's blog:

Even if you are not antisemitic, you are allowing unabashed antisemites to post violent and dangerous words in the comments section. Even if Thor and company are just bags of wind, surely you understand how dangerous their ideas could be if implanted into the wrong heads. I can fully understand you not wanting to censor the flow of ideas, but I think you have to take some responsibility for your own blog.

Second, Israel does not target Palestinian civilians. Find me a case where an Israeli has walked into a crowded Palestinian restaurant and blown himself up to kill families. It doesn't happen.

Palestinian civilians are being killed because these militants (I prefer the term terrorists) are operating in populace areas. They put their own children in the line of fire to make martyrs out of them. The innocents are being killed during military strikes, but they are not the target. Palestinians militants are actually setting out to kill innocent civilians. A not so subtle point that seems to be overlooked.

Well, off to the interment camp.


Red Tulips said...

ChiefMommy Owl:

I agree fully with all your comments except one. There was one case of an Israeli terrorizing the Palestinians - Baruch Goldstein. But he was punished both in the court of law, and the court of Israeli public opinion. In contrast, the Palestinians shower money upon the families of suicide bombers, and have publicly praised them.

ChiefMommy Owl said...

Actually, I didn't forget Baruch Goldstein. Baruch Goldstein was a doctor who regularly treated both Arab and Jewish terror victims alike. Kiryat Arba residents recalled that in the days before the massacre, a terrorist organization had been circulating word that they were going to act in one to two days. One of their Arab, religious leaders was inciting Muslim worshippers from inside the Cave of our Fathers.

By most accounts, Baruch Goldstein thought he was acting to prevent a massacre. He was not a radical. He didn't set out to terrorize Palestinians.

For the record, I have no firm opinion on Goldstein's actions. Jewish Law basically says that if someone is coming to kill you, you go out and meet them and make a war with them. There was much discussion afterwards whether or not Goldstein's actions were justifiable under Jewish law, but these laws are extremely complex and I am not qualified to comment.


ChiefMommy Owl said...

Oh, and he was never tried in the Israeli court system. He was beaten to death at the scene.

Red Tulips said...

Chief Mommy Owl,

Thank you for getting my facts straight re: Goldstein, I appreciate it!

And overall it's just ludicrous to say Israel's actions are on the same par as the Palestinians, or even the same planet. ISRAEL DOES NOT AIM FOR CIVILIANS, PALESTINIANS DO!!


Steven said...

She is one stale cookie.

Steven said...


Remember we are Genocidal, Naturally Racist, Imperialist, Colonialist Thieves of other peoples land. Anything the fluffy West Palestine Arabs do is fair game. Plus they are not as good a shot as the Israelis and their rockets do not cause as many deaths so Israelis should not respond to the terrorists who are specifically targetting Israeli civilians incase Israel causes them more casualties.

The rule is, whoever has the most casualties is the victim.

Its all a pile of steaming cow dung. :(

Red Tulips said...


What troubles me is that that blog is hardly unique. When you read crap that is in the Arab media on a regular see the slant of that blog as the norm.

As I have gotten older, the hate against Israel has gotten worse. WHEN WILL IT ALL END?

Citisucks said...

You are accusing qrswave of not printing the truth and hating Jews. Oh please, this is what qrswave really said "Come on, people. I don't expect everyone to agree on everything, but I do expect people to remain civil and refrain from threatening to harm groups of people based on their race, religious belief, or national origin.".

You twist peoples words, misquote people, and outright make up stuff that people aren't even saying tell them that they need to defend things they aren't even saying or don't even belief to you.

Pathetic. Pathetic racist anti-free speech hater.

Red Tulips said...

I will not go into the beliefs of qrswave at this point in time, as I have well stated them time and again.

Suffice it to say, her blog speaks for itself.

Funny you should call me a racist, by the way, when in fact you are the one who has stated on numerous occasions the boring refrain of "white male corporate terrorist."

Your non-thought just knows no bounds, it's breathtaking.

Citisucks said...

There is nothing racist about the statement white male corporate terrorists: go have a look for yourself and see what race and sex the corporate terrorists are. Rich white males are a extremely overally privaledged group who have gotten where they are through terrorizing others.

Red Tulips said...

You do not even know what a "terrorist" is. I have asked you to define "corporate terrorism" and you have yet to do so.

Furthermore, corporations are good and bad. White men are good and bad. Rich men are good and bad. But in your twisted and sick world, it's all "rich white male corporate terrorist."

Who is the hater again here?

Citisucks said...

I have defined corporate terrorist numerous times and you know it, so stop lying (or being delusional). I have done it so many times I have it saved on my computer so here it is again " It is called corporate terrorism because it has killed far more people than the traditional terrorists ever have or could. It kills through laws, packed by paid governmental enforcers with weapons and intimidation tactics, designed to instill terror into the people they murder" (Citisucks computer).

And I didn't say white men, I said rich white men and yes I am a hater or rich white men and proud to be a hater of these terrorists. In fact they deserve far worse than hatred. Your point?

Red Tulips said...


So you are saying any rich white male is a corporate terrorist? Talk about non-thought.

You also have no idea what a terrorist is, and this is point in fact the first time you even defined what you were speaking of.

And to that I have a few things to say...

1. Unfair and inequitable laws do not exist in a vacuum. For instance, to the extent there are sweathops in China, it's not just the "rich white male corporate employee" who is responsible. It's the Chinese government, enabling it.

2. To the extent that there is inequity in the world, it's not "corporate terrorism," because terrorism inherently involves violence. Corporations use monetary coercision.

3. There are some good corporations and some bad corporations. For instance, look at what The Body Shop has done - they always buy fair use products and have lifted up the economies of third world regions. That is but one example.

4. It is non-thinking racism to make such overarching statements as "rich white male corporate terrorist" because more than men work in corporations, and more than white men.

The world is far more complicated than the simplistic anti-thought world of your's, sorry.

Steven said...

Miss R.

This is a long article which takes some thought - but it should begin to explain a lot. After this article I reccommend that you check out the link called "A crux of World History".

Is the USA an Ally of Israel?

After reading "A crux of world history" you will see that this what we see today has been the norm since roman times. (Not to be depressing atall.)

You ask: "When will it all end?" It will end, but there is no telling when. Atleast 3 major religions say it will end at a time called the "end of days".

He also has a good article on the Palestinian Movement for anyone who is interested, but I think you have that covered already Miss R.

Red Tulips said...


Thank you so much for your links! I will read them later and comment.

What I find funny about the "end of days" is how egocentric it is! Every generation you will see masses of people who believe they are the last generation who will populate this planet. This assumes they are so important, that earth cannot exist without them. It amuses me to no end.

Steven said...

Though I do not believe in it.

All religiouns have different interpretations of "The End of Days". Rarely is it the same as the end of Mankind, but it is seen as the end of Civilisation.

According to Christianity, there will be a period of time called the "rapture" where Christians will go to heaven before all the bloodshed starts. There will be a huge war breaking the world into two domains. The domain of Satan will include every country in the entire world... except for Israel which God will protect. "Jerusalem will be a stumbling block" - or something like that.

According to Islam the End of Days will occur when the entire world is united under God, and therefore the entire world is untied under God's "true" religion - Islam.

**** I am going off on a Tanjent here! *****

However the Quran also says some interesting things about the Jewish people you can read here. I passed this on to a Muslim friend of mine who confirmed that this was authentic.

Many Muslims such as Tawfik Hamid have escaped the nature of the Nazi-like twisted interpretation of Islam and can see the religion for the good. Here are some articles by him (This guy is fab!):

1) Why I love Israel (based on the Quran)
2) When I asked my Muslim friend, "Why do you hate the Jews?"
3) When I met with Jews

These are great if you meet anyone who generalises about all Muslims.

***** Back from tanjent! *****

Sorry, back on topic:

Judaism... well Judaism is closer to the Christian perspective except for the rapture part. Judaism also states that those who are charitable towards the children of Israel in their time of need will be blessed.

I do not speculate. But what is certain is that the "End of Days" does not mean the "End of Humanity".


And on an unrelated note, I got the pieces from Tawfik on this site.

Steven said...

Oops. Now I have given you more links than is physically possible to read in a week!

Sorry about that. :)

Red Tulips said...


I promise to read them all, and I appreciate your sending it to me!

Actually, I will do you one better. I would like it if you could post on this blog, IF you want to. Your contributions are truly invaluable! (as are Chief mommy owl's, though she seems to have her own blog set up)

Steven said...

That is incredibly kind of you. :)

I am flattered.

I would love the honour.

I am actually building a blog at the moment which will be a collaboration between me and a "Palestinian" Arab who lives in the "West Bank"... He is in the process of deciding if he wants to work with me on it. :)

I am also forming a community for a discussion board which will address any Israel related issues (breaking them up into very small chunks so we can actually learn things from one another).

You beat me too it!

Your blog is fantastic. Not only do you frequently update it with interesting stories - you also act as a voice against extremist voices against Islam which do more to discredit us than anything else.

I was hovering over the idea of asking if you would like to contribute on the blogs I am building - however I have not yet built them so I have not yet extended my invitation.

I will extend the pre-invitation now:

Would you be interested in becoming a part of this blogs and discussion groups when they are eventually established? :)

I am honoured by your invitation and it would be my pleasure to be part of this outstanding blog.

Steven said...

"...this blogs and discussion groups..."

"...this blog and discussion group..."


Red Tulips said...


Thanks! Yes and yes. Email me: sunsetr at hotmail dot com.

I have to say one of the pleasures of this blog and the posts from you and chief mommy owl are that I can clear up misconceptions I carry. You have much to teach the world.

I also really value Albion Moonlight's contribution - this person clearly wants to know both sides of the story, and that's something to be encouraged. :-)

Steven said...


I just sent you an email.

If you ever want to contact me I set up a page:

It is just a blog where all comments are moderated and emailed to me directly. :)

Meg said...

Really I can not believe that it is happening again three years later. In fact I was looking for some more current news when I found your posts here.