Wednesday, June 21, 2006

One more thing!

I want to state that just for fairness sake, I will say something bad about Israel that I mean. I believe that Israel committed atrocities in Lebanon. This was well documented in Thomas Friedman's book From Beirut to Jerusalem. The Sabra and Shatila massacres took place in Lebanon, by the Maronite Christians, with Ariel Sharon's knowledge and the Israeli army's protection of the Maronites. This is something which will be a black mark on Israel's history, that they can never fully make up for. Ariel Sharon, frankly, was a war criminal for those actions. There also was terrorism of the Irgun Gang in the formation of Israel, though in that instance, it was terrorism that occurred while there were Palestinian terrorists doing THEIR own thing. Two wrongs, however, do NOT make a right, and the bombing of the King David Hotel is not excusable, despite what the Palestinians did in Hebron and elsewhere. (EDITED TO CLARIFY: the bombing of the King David was done against the Brits, not the Palestinians, though it occurred amidst Palestinian terrorism against Jews) I want it to be known that my eyes are open with regard to Israel. I support them despite the Lebanese massacre and the actions of the Irgun Gang, because I see that, overall, the good that Israel does and has done far outweighs the bad. I don't want it to be said that I am not balanced on my blog. UPDATE: qrswave will not write anything good about Israel or bad about the Palestinians on her blog. Here is my reply to THAT.
If you hope to be the truth shall set you free, then you in fact DO owe it to your readers to post FACTS and not propoganda. When you post "speculation" that Israel is behind 9/11, Mossad is behind suicide bombing attacks, and say on this very thread that Israel kills without thinking, you cannot hide behind the "I am not Israel's PR machine" comment. If you purport to TRUTH (and the word TRUTH is in the title of this site), then you owe it to your readers to actually post...TRUTH. You cannot hide behind the "I am not Israel's PR machine" statement and also call yourself "The Truth Shall Set You Free."

18 comments:

Steven said...

"the bombing of the King David Hotel"

That was no hotel but a British Military HQ.

Steven said...

The bombing was not in response to Hebron but to the actions of the British. The British HQ therefore seems a likely target.

I am suprised that so few people comment on the fact that the British are responsible for useing spitfires to shoot at boats full of immagrants who, after escaping Nazi Germany, were simply trying to build a life for themselves. One of my own family managed to make it all the way on boat to the shores of Israel before he was killed by the British Army... but I am a patriotic Brit too so I am bias both ways.

The British are great at times - we totally screwed up with the Palestine mandate though and quite simply deserved more than we got.

"among [the dead and injured] there were many high officials, junior officer..."

Thus is war. A response to those same officials ordering the arrest of over 2500 Jews and confiscating important documents from the JA.

The bombing of the King David Hotel, as with every travisty where civilians are killed, is extremely sad.

Unfortunately sometimes a group has to take action rather than the moral high ground, if they did not there would be no Israel today; and as we witness the new rise of anti-Semitism I thank my lucky stars that if the going get tough, I have somewhere else to go.

Red Tulips said...

I know the bombing of the King David Hotel was against the Brits, though I guess I was not clear with it all.

Anyway, I had no idea about the spitfires the brits were using. Of course I didn't know, because you have to dig through lies before you come upon essential truths, such as the Grand Mufti of the Palestinians being Hitler's ally and sending Palestinians to kill Jews. That little tidbit is hidden history to say the VERY LEAST.

I feel exactly the same way about Israel, though, overall. EXACTLY THE SAME.

It saddens and sickens me to read people like qrswave write what she does on her blog, but c'est la vie. I have to stop reading it for my own health, if nothing else.

Citisucks said...

I want it to be known that my eyes are open with regard to Israel.

Really because they look pretty shut to me. Qrswave blog is the truth and you can't handle the truth. Come on delete this comment free speech hater because as stated again YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH.

Red Tulips said...

Citisucks,

What is it exactly that I cannot handle? You have yet to actually make a single statement that even resembles a point. Your nonsensical ramblings are tired and boring.

Albion Moonlight said...

Hey Miss R, are you still behind Israel's denial of involvement in the "Gaza beach blast"? I know you've posted about it and that you've basically said, what ever the Israeli army says is fine by me.

What do you think of the emerging reports that: "Israel concluded that the explosion came at least 10 minutes after the military had stopped shelling.

But medical logs, cell phone records and other evidence reviewed by Knight Ridder suggest that the explosion took place during the barrage and probably was due to an artillery round.

According to phone records and ambulance logs, the first emergency call for help at the beach came at 4:40 p.m., while the shelling was going on and about 20 minutes before Israel contends the blast hit the Palestinians."

Are Knight-Ridder, the United Nations, and Human Rights watch all apart of the anti-Israeli conspiracy? How come no follow up?

here's the address (sorry, don't know how to post as a link, somebody should teach me)

http://www.realcities.com/mld/krwashington/14870888.htm

Red Tulips said...

Albion,

I welcome your posts, because you actually attempt to make a point, rather than state "white male corporate terrorist" everywhere.

Anyway, Human Rights Watch is funded by George Soros, who is known to be anti-Israel. The evidence proves that in fact the IDF was not behind the Gaza beach incident.

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1150885821374&pagename=JPost/JPArticle/ShowFull

More on Human Rights Watch:

http://www.chroniclesmagazine.org/Chronicles/February2004/0204Trifkovic.html

Reuters and Knight Ridder simply cited to Human Rights Watch without questioning the source.

Albion Moonlight said...

That's not entirely true, if you read the article it claims they (Knight Ridder) examined cell phone records, amublance and hospital records.

It also says this: "But eyewitnesses, computerized cell-phone records, hospital logs and an internal United Nations report contradict that claim. [IDFs claim that the shell hit at a later time]"

...

Human Rights Watch offered to provide the Israeli military with shrapnel it pulled from a car that had been hit by the blast, but investigators refused, Garlasco said.

"An investigation that refuses to look at contradictory evidence can hardly be considered credible," he said. "The IDF's partisan approach highlights the need for an independent, international investigation."

Look, everybody's got an agenda. George Soros is seen as a liberal champion in the US, but he amassed much of his fortune during the looting of Russia in the post-USSR collapse. He's not exaclty a hero of mine. But, but, if this is just going to come down to "who do you want to believe" then we've gotten nowhere.

Thanks, by the way. I am trying to see things from more than one side, but it's difficult. I feel that there is a lot of evidence to implicate Israel for heavy handed tactics. They keep saying that the Palestinians must stop their terror tactics (before we'll stop ours, which are much more effective and destructive). I am paraphrasing, but I think you know what I mean.

There's plenty of blame all around. Until we get past blame and towards constructive solutions, things will only get worse. Just my opinion.

Albion Moonlight said...

By the way, I read the Jerusalem Post article. What can I say? Contradictory statements from one side to the other.

Does this only come down to "who do you want to believe?" What happened to objective truth? Does it exist anymore?

Red Tulips said...

Albion,

I guess it does come down to who is more credible. I honestly believe JPost. I can see how you would be skeptical of JPost.

Reasonable minds can say it wasn't Israel that did the Gaza bombing, but I understand why you would think they did.

However, Israel in general has had a policy of striking out against the launchers of rockets and organizers of terror, but NOT civilians. So, even if the Gaza bombing was Israel's fault (it's possible - no truly independent agency did an investigation), I KNOW it was an accident.

What does Israel have to gain by shelling a beach of civilians? Less than nothing - it is a huge public relations disaster for Israel.

I appreciate your coming here and your open mind. You are a valued poster and I respect your opinion.

Steven said...

"It saddens and sickens me to read people like qrswave write what she does on her blog, but c'est la vie. I have to stop reading it for my own health, if nothing else."

Likewise - that blog is particually harsh though.

Steven said...

Heya Albion, I hope you are still around...

"Thanks, by the way. I am trying to see things from more than one side, but it's difficult. I feel that there is a lot of evidence to implicate Israel for heavy handed tactics. They keep saying that the Palestinians must stop their terror tactics (before we'll stop ours, which are much more effective and destructive). I am paraphrasing, but I think you know what I mean."

Israel targets militants, "Palestinians"/Arabs target civilians. I know where you are coming from though - but this distinction must be made.

If you look into the deeper history you will see even more reasons why Israel is right to defend itself against Arab agression. Here is a quickie:

American and Israeli relations

Following another surprising Israeli victory in the 1967 war, Israel ended up controlling the Sinai, the Golan Heights, the Gaza Strip, and the West Bank. In November of that year, the UN Security Council passed UN Resolution 242 which called for

"Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict."[30]

This was simply outrageous because earlier that year - despite being victorious after yet another genocidal provocation - Israeli prime minister Levi Eshkol had immediately offered Israel's Arab enemies to take back these territories on condition that they promise never to attack Israel again. The Arabs refused.[31]

You read correctly: that's all the Israelis were asking, and nothing like this -- not even remotely like it -- has ever happened in the history of warfare. Never before has a victorious state, after defending itself against an attack, and winning territory, offered to give it back in exchange for a promise of peace. And that's without mentioning that the attack was an attempted genocide [see section 1964-67].

But the Arabs refused!

Given this, how could the UN Security Council now demand that Israel return these territories? That was simply absurd, not to mention immoral. The US could have used its veto power in the Security Council to stop this resolution, but didn't.

Matters, however, are worse, because according to University of Pennsylvania political science professor Ian Lustick, the US has adopted Resolution 242 as its official policy.

"[US] policy, in some sense, has stayed, in a formal way, more or less where it’s always been, which is not a bad place. That is, officially, we believe that there ought to be a solution based on Resolution 242, which seems to suggest almost complete Israeli withdrawal from the territories, except for mutually agreed changes."[31a]

Steven said...

There is another article on the history of the Palestinian Movement that I think you will find helpful.

Take care.



Steven

Red Tulips said...

Steven,

Wow, I was not even aware of those extra facts.

The more I read and learn about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, the more attuned I am to the morality and justice of the state of Israel.

Steven said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
Steven said...

What is a "conspiricy"?

:)

Steven said...

This is what we are facing. People who try to blow up hospitals after they are given free treatment by Israel.

Notice how the reporter says that this girl is not like most Palestinians by her genocidal ambitions, however that is sadly incorrect.

TeachKidsPeace.com

Steven said...

It is amazing how people repeatedly apologise for these acts which are designed to murcer innocent civilians because some claim of an occupation.

This is one of my recent posts at a different blog:

*** Start ***

"Palestinians think they are the oppressed and occupied nation and they have the right to defend."

When infact:
- they are not a nation yet and never have been.

- Israel supports the creation of a peaeful Palestinian state and have done so since the 1947 partition plan.

- Firing 10's of rocket into Israeli housing estates every single day is not defence.

- Blowing up civilans, even school kids on busses, is not defence.

However you are right, Palestinians do mostly see it this way.

*** End ***

These are the building blogs for genocide. Ordinary people can only commit terrible atrocities unless they believe they are acting in self-defence.