Friday, September 8, 2006

Antizionism is antisemitism

As Steven has previously written, 'antizionism' is nothing more than antisemitism repackaged as being PC-acceptable. Well, finally MPs in the UK have published a report showing an upswing in antisemitism, tied to the actions of radical Islamists (such as my old 'friend' over at wakefromyourslumber) who cloak their hatred in "antizionism." Read the article yourself - and you will see how finally some people are waking up to this obvious reality. 'Antizionism' is a farce, concocted by Islamists, and eaten up like candy by PC multi-culti bullshiteers. It is so sad, tragic even, that I actually know Jews who buy into this nonsense. They are buying into their own destruction, and they don't even realize it. Has Israel committed some wrongs? Sure. But it is not even a fraction of the wrongs committed by the monsters that populate the leaders of the Palestinians - who have direct connections to Hitler and were part of the greatest genocide of the 20th century, and possibly the history of the world, the Holocaust. They never had to pay for their crimes against humanity, and the media of the Palestinians perpetuates a genocidal death cult. Disgusting. I am sick of it. I am sick of pussy footing around obvious realities. Antizionism is antisemitism simply under a different label. Period.

20 comments:

shlemazl said...

Nah; it's not the same. The words have different meaning. Sure; all antisemites are antizionists and the vast majority (but not all) of antizionists are antisemites, but it is not the same thing.

Does not make antizionism any better though. Antizionist=antiisraeli and is just as racist and bad as antiamerican, antigerman or any other country.

Monkey Chops said...

I'm anti-Zionist, but I don't hate Jews. It's definitely not the same thing. If someone opposes the concept of Israeli expansion, they're automatically hateful to the entire Jewish nation? Utter, utter nonsense.

Red Tulips said...

I define 'antizionist' as against the idea of a Jewish state at all - not expansion of Israel.

I have spoken to you on numerous occasions when you told me you are not against the existence of the state of Israel, but only have problems with the territories and some specific policies of Israel.

That is not the definition of an 'antizionist,' at least as I see it. An 'antizionist' is against the very concept of Israel.

And sorry, but if that is you, and if you have changed your tune, then yes, I will be forced to believe that a part of you, whether you want to admit it or not, is antisemitic.

Because why are you against the concept of ISRAEL as a state, versus any other state? Why the focus on Israel as illegitimate versus any and every other state in the world?

The only people who can call themselves 'antizionists' and not be considered antisemites are anarchists who are against all forms of statehood around the world, thereby not singling out Israel for special treatment. Last I checked, you are not an anarchist. But I also do not believe you are an antizionist.

Monkey Chops said...

No. I stand by Israel's moral right to exist, even though I question the way they went about it.

What I oppose is Israel's attempts to expand. That is an anti-Zionist stance. I've always said that. Are the orthodox Jews who also oppose the state of Israel, such as the Hassidic Jews, also anti-Semitic? Probably, by your ostrich definition.

On a side note, that report you mentioned was concerning how British Jews were being targeted - something I condemn wholeheartedly because they're my fellow countrymen.

Red Tulips said...

Chops:

Zionism has many facets, but at its core, is a belief in a Jewish state of Israel. You have no problem with this, so you are NOT antizionist. Rather, you are against what some zionists believe and some policies of Israel.

As far as the crazed Jews who are anti-Israel: they are either self hating Jews or are flat out insane religious fanatics.

In any case, the number of true antizionists who are not also antisemites are too small to really be counted. That is why for all intents and purposes, antizionism is antisemitism.

Red Tulips said...

Chops:

I want to add that the word "zionism" has taken on a dirty connotation, but at its heart simply is a belief in a Jewish state in Israel. That's it. Nothing more. There are zionists who are against the territories, and there are zionists like myself who would give up the territories if peace could be achieved by doing so, but do not live life with blinders on, and believe that giving up the territories would be suicidally stupid at this juncture. Zionism as a belief does not imply "expand expand expand" the land of Israel. I am not sure why you would even think it does. It is simply a belief in Jewish self determination. THAT'S IT.

Monkey Chops said...

That's the argument of desperation. Zionism is inherently contradictory with classical Jewish belief, but paradoxically, to point this out automatically makes one a racist? Please. Anti-Semites don't have the intelligence to point this out.

Red Tulips said...

monkey chops:

No, only a very fringe and lunatic number of religious Jews are anti-Israel. They in no way represent Jews or the Jewish faith. Their interpretation of the bible is their's alone. They also often conspire with Islamofascists.

Guess what? There were Jews who conspired with Hitler to kill fellow Jews. That didn't mean that Naziism was not antisemitic in nature. Same applies here.

To say that the .001% of religious Jews who are anti-Israel exist and is proof that antizionism is not antisemitism is stretching the bounds of rationality.

The vast majority of Jews who are anti-Israel are self loathing and fully secular Jews, who wholly disassociate themselves from their Judaism, anyway.

See: Norm Finkelstein, Noam Chomsky

These are the foremost Jewish 'scholars' who are against the concept of the State of Israel. To read their 'intellectualism' is laughable. They are antisemites who just happen to be Jewish. Yes, it's possible for such a person to exist.

Monkey Chops said...

I'm not taking part in this nonsense any further. Calling Noam Chomsky an anti-Semite is the most laughable thing I've ever read. If you believe that, then this argument can never be resolved. Zionism is a secular movement, not a religious one. If it was, the Jews would have risen up centuries ago and created a state of Israel.

There is therefore no religious basis for Zionism. Hence, my dislike for it on the basis of it being solely a secular, non-religious movement. Hell, the funny thing is, unlike the orthodox Jews, I don't believe that Israel should be dismantled! It's there, and dismantling it would be immensely destructive for everyone - just as its formation was destructive.

But whatever, I resent being called an anti-Semite (more specifically, anti-Jewish), but if you want to believe that I am, I am still not going to change my opposition to Zionism.

Red Tulips said...

Chops:

If you are not against the state of Israel, you are not anti-zionist. It's that simple. You may consider yourself anti-zionist, only because the word "zionist" has taken on a dirty meaning beyond what it ACTUALLY means. But actually, you are NOT anti-zionist.

Zionism is a belief in a Jewish homeland. Original zionists believed in a secular homeland, but many zionists today also believe in a religious homeland with religious basis - i.e., a religious movement. I happen to believe in a secular Jewish homeland.

But then I am an atheist Jew, so what do you expect?

Anonymous said...

Zionism is a political-nationalist movement. I assume, since your site promotes "free thinking" that one can oppose certain political ideologies? I am an anti-zionist, not because I oppose Jews having their own homeland (although nation-states whose formative nationalist ideologies are based on religion - Saudi Arabia, Iran, Israel - freak me out), but because in this particular instance, that homeland already happened to be populated. If the zionists had found an empty piece of land, then I wouldn't have had a problem. The original inhabitants were massacred and/or expelled, and continue to live under one of the most brutal occupations in history. In fact, Palestine was just one among a number of suggested homelands. The Israeli state needs to be dismantled and turned into a secular (ie non-religiously identified) homeland for both its palestinian and jewish residents. Only then can there be peace.

shlemazl said...

Firstly, monkey chops is a zionist without realizing it. Anyone who supports the existence of the state of Israel is a zionist. Very few zionists want expansion of Israel, which is erroneous definition of the word by monkey chops.

Secondly anonymous is simply ignorant of the facts because Zionism has been for the most a secular movement. True: the state of Israel isn't fully separated from religion and I don't like it. Unlike the other countries on anon's list there is freedom of religion and that's a huge difference. Israel is similar in this respect to the UK. All schools in England are religious; there are no atheist schools and kids have to pray first thing in the morning.

felix said...

Zionism is the idea of the return of the Jewish people to their ancestral homeland.

By the rivers of Babylon we sat and wept as we remembered zion. Before Islam, before Christianity, the Jews wanted to return to zion after the first exhile.

Jason H. Bowden said...

Putting the Zionism issue in the broader context, there was a flood of immigration from Europe in general in the 19th century. Europeans migrated en masse to Australia, South America, South Africa, and North America. Many European Jews immigrated to Palestine, which was under British administration at the time, and most obtained their land fair and square.

That many Democrats support anti-immigrant reactionary rightwing anti-homosexual religious fundamentalist fanatics like the Party of God (the Hezb'Allah) is one of the peculiar facts of the universe we inhabit today.

Of course, groups like the Hezb'Allah aren't anti-semitic. They're just anti-Zionist, so we're told. Who is the left fooling with this phony distinction?

Sword of Truth said...

Hi there!

I followed a certain neo-nazi from the Screw Loose Change blog to "wakeupfromyourslumber" and having found the blog to be a seething cesspot of fascist ethno-religious hatred, I immedeately started yanking chains to see how angry I could make these emotionally hypersensitive swastika swingers.

Tulops peaked in and saw the fun I was having at the klukkers expense and invited me to take drop by your blog here.

As to the subject at hand, I agree with Tulips and Steven. Christianity rules europe and the americas, islam dominates from morroco to malaysia but judaism has only Israel. Even then for only a handful of decades as opposed to the millenia of christian and islamic rule of thier respective lands.

To suggest that jews alone are undeserving of a place to call home is the very letter and spirit of racism and religious bigotry.

Red Tulips said...

Sword of Truth:

Thank you for stopping by! I am glad you enjoy my little blog. :-)

I hope you stay and continue to contribute, and please check out the links I have posted - each one is worthy of a read when you have the time.

All the best,

Red Tulips

Nathan Finkelstein said...

I am a Jew, and I feel that Israel is a terrorist state and I am an anti-Zionist. The injustices that the Israelis have spread over the Muslim world have fostered anti-semitism as never before. The US aid given to Israel must be stopped for the good of the Jewish and American people.

Red Tulips said...

Every group has its nutjobs. You are one of the nutjob Jews. You actually have the audacity to claim that the Holocaust was caused by zionism.

http://antizionistjews.blogspot.com/2006/10/role-of-zionism-in-holocaust.html

Am I supposed to take your seriously? I mean, you are a joke, right?

Nathan Finkelstein said...

I am no joke. Everything the Nazis disliked about the Jews was manifested in Zionism. The orthodox jews have realized because their rabbis form a link in the unbroken chain of the Jewish tradition dating all the way back to Moses who received the Torah from Almighty G-d Himself.

Red Tulips said...

Nathan, I truly feel sorry for you that you are so brainwashed against fellow Jews.