Tuesday, September 12, 2006

The high level of discourse of 'antizionists'

I really feel so enlightened by the following exchange. I think you all will be amused by this, so I am copying and pasting what was said. I post regularly on gaymiddleeast blog. There was one post in particular which interested me, and so I wrote a reply. The post is right here, and details gay Jewish porn actor, Michael Lucas, and his intent to perform a live sex show "for the troops" of Israel. QArab wrote:
A porn star dancing in a private club that won't charge soldiers to get in is far from an "entertaining the troops" scenario... this is simply a bad PR story meant to exploit headlines to get some attention. that said, I would gladly go entertain Hezbollah bears... one at a time, or sometimes, two or even three...
My response was this:
qarab: Even as a joke, that was disgusting, and implies you support Hizballah. But whatever! I agree that certainly the war in Lebanon had nothing to do with gay rights in Lebanon, but I see no reason why it's wrong to highlight the extreme intolerance of Hizballah towards gay people. (in contradistinction towards Israel's policies)
This resulted in the following exchange, and brought Peter to write on this board where his 'thoughtful commentary' is right here. The exchange: a frustrated queer arab said... Regardless of Hizbullah's stance on gays, why bring up gay rights at all when it clearly has nothing to do with anything? There is a very clear point being made, one that is not innocent, is loaded with ideology, and that Israel uses consistently. Unfortunately, human rights and democracy have become vaccuous tools in the hands of the powerful. Israel, which sells itself as a haven of tolerance amidst a sea of backwardness, uses its more enlightened treatment of (Israeli) gays as proof that it is more civilized than the Arabs and hence more deserving of international support. In effect, what it is doing is it is claiming that some rights are more important than others (they want points for being gay friendly, but that comes at the expense of their brutal oppression of the Palestinians, which to them is unimportant. That same strategy is being used by saying Hizbullah's war is against Israeli gays). The increasingly superficial and silly and self-absorbed gay citizenry of the world that can't see beyond its own gayness is unfortunately but unsurprisingly falling for it hook, line and sinker. With an attention span of about 5 seconds for anything non-gay related, these strategies of deflection from the real issues work like a charm. September 09, 2006 3:50 PM Red Tulips said... Puh-lease. "Oppressed" Palestinians my tuchus. I have very little sympathy for a people who claim to be "oppressed" and yet brutally oppress minorities within their own community, while the world community is silent. I am sick to death of these double standards. And let's not even mention the fact that the Israelis are restrained as all hell in their treatment of the Palestinians, and no other country in the world is held to the standards of the Israelis. The Palestinians get tons of sympathy for an illegitimate cause. On the other hand, the plight of gay Muslims is a very real and substantial cause that does need to get the attention it deserves. September 11, 2006 8:26 PM Peter said... I'm amused to see that Red Tulips relies on the anti-Palestinian (and anti-gay) WorldNetDaily as a reliable authority. Never mind that that Christian Palestinians have repeatedly debunked the claim of persecution. September 11, 2006 11:01 PM Peter said... I should add that I also find it incredibly cynical for Red Tulips to use Israel's record on LGBT issues to justify Israel's denial of basic human and political rights to Palestinians. As if civil rights for lgbt people in one place excuses oppression and war crimes in another place. Palestinians gays and lesbians not only suffer from the Israeli occupation just like all other Palestinians,they also suffer from Israel's blackmailing of gay Palestinians into becoming colloborators. And there is no doubt that the intolerable conditions Palestinians live under have strengthened reactionary groups like Hamas and Islamic Jihad. September 11, 2006 11:29 PM Red Tulips said... Peter: You are funny when you speak of how "oppressed" the Palestinians are. Please. Don't make me laugh. The leader of the 'Palestinians' (most of whom really are not even natives, but in fact recently moved to Israel at the same time the Jews moved to Israel) brought upon the 'degradation' of the Palestinians themselves. Look at the $3 billion that Arafat (himself a native of Egypt) left his French wifey, Suha. This was money meant for the Palestinian people. Look at how his uncle, the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, led the slaughter of tens of thousands of Jews during the Holocaust. The Palestinians never had to pay for their part in the Holocaust, not really. Their media perpetuates a genocidal death cult, and the Palestinians treat their women and gays rather poorly. (to put it mildly) Hamas, in its charter, quotes from the Protocols of Zion (a document upon which Mein Kampf was based), and is dedicated to Israel's destruction. This is the government that leads the Palestinians. Are some Palestinians decent? Sure. I feel some sympathy for them. But as a whole, the Palestinians are false victims. They destablized Lebanon and Jordan, and have been kicked out of most nations in the world, because no one wants them for two reasons: a) they are destabilizers of governments; b) it's better to use the Palestinian issue as a "wedge issue." I am sick of it. The Palestinian cause is a phony cause and a false effort to be concerned about. On the other hand, gay rights in general, and specifically for Muslims, is a very real issue that deserves attention. People like Al-Fil are to be treasured and praised for bringing attention to issues that otherwise would be ignored. I will have sympathy for the Palestinian people when they earn my sympathy. They have yet to do so. Meanwhile, there is a genocide in Darfur and no one gives even half a crap. Why? It's black people killing black people. If this involved Americans or Israelis, and a mere .5% of those who died in Darfur were killed, the world would be singing a different tune. I am sick of this hypocrisy. Far from deserving attention, the Palestinian 'cause' deflects attention from far more pressing matters. September 12, 2006 12:58 AM Anonymous said... I hope you choke on Andrew Sullivan's dick, you lying right-wing Zionist fuckface. September 13, 2006 2:30 AM ------------------- WOW! I feel so enlightened now! That anonymous guy, he really got me! That's it, now I am changing my tune! I am a Jihadist now! You know, the powers of his reasoning are just too strong for me! I give up! I concede! Sorry, bloggers, but I have Patty Hearsted myself! Anon's powers of persuasion were just too strong for my weak intellect. (I am a woman, after all) He's a man and hence too smart for me. Allahu Akbar! Allahu Akbar! //Riiiiiiiiight...


shlemazl said...

My discussions with anti-Zionists typically have one of three outcomes:

1. anti-Zionists claim that attack on Afghanistan was perpertrated by the British Royal family to because they peddle drugs.

2. claim that I am just like Hitler, only much worse.

3. claim that my mother is a whore.

I can give you references if you want.

These people have problems. Wonder whether Freud could have explained it for us.

Red Tulips said...

LOL, actually, I would love to see the references! And yes, they do have problems! I like to quote an 80s song. Insane in the membrane!

shlemazl said...

1. http://shlemazl.blogspot.com/2006/03/anti-zionism-anti-semitism-and-neo.html

The "Royal family" accusation is towards the end of the comments section.

2 and 3 can be found here:


There is some very good stuff in the actual discussions that I linked to.

Red Tulips said...


I started reading your links, but then felt my brain cells shrinking by the second.

It is mind boggling that there are creatures out there who are purportedly human that think this way. Truly mind boggling.