Tuesday, January 2, 2007

Thank you, curmudgiana

Seems I was just banned from DKos for calling out the truth on Rachel Corrie. I was curious how long I would last on DKos, and I see it was not long. This simply provides definitive proof that DKos is, for the most part, an anti-Israel swampland. To the extent that it is backed by major Democrats, I see the writing on the wall. Sad. Resolution for 2006: Any one politician who DKos supports automatically is suspect. So sad. I just cannot believe that there are people who are so anti-American and anti-Israel out there. I cannot believe how many people believe the lie. To good folks on there (you know who you are), I believe you are fighting a losing battle. Experiment on DKos proved my hypothesis of the anti-Israel cesspool of the far left. I thought I could redirect the dialogue and combat the blood libels, but alas, I cannot. Very, very sad. ****UPDATE**** Eric S, a poster on DKos whose opinion I value, wrote the following. In the interest of fairness, I believe it deserves airing, even though I disagree with it:
I find the argument above [that the majority of DKos posters are anti-Israel] to be the kind of cherrypicking that begins with the conclusion and will not be deterred. At best, these are your impressions. But to it all, I add two notions. You are hearing the deafening volume created buy a small group of extremely loud and obnoxious true believers and imagining it is a multitude. The majority, I believe, are put off by the raw and contentious tenor of IP debate, and so either distance themselves from it, or hold less fervent positions (certainly not hate) in the absence of extensive consideration. And that is my opinion, though a real poll would be interesting.
I agree a real poll would be interesting, though it should be noted that Eric S wrote what he wrote in response to the following comment I wrote:
I can understand the desire to hope that the larger community does not hate Israel, but I would have to dispute your conclusion. I believe the larger community clearly does not discuss Israel on a day to day basis, but, after the release of Jimmy Carter's book and the subsequent lauding of Jimmy Carter by the vast majority of the community, I feel the resulting comments speak for themselves. Lest we forget the diary that Meteor Blades, an admin, wrote. Lest we forgot the hundreds of responses to that diary, from individuals who normally do not post on the subject. And lest we forget the infamous Jerome a Paris, who wrote a diary recently about the Iranian Holocaust cartoons, advocating they brought up a legitimate debate, in response to which Markos himself said "worst timed diary ever - get this off the site, or at the very least, repost it after the election." Do I believe the majority of Kossacks are quite as passionately anti-Israel as the posters who regularly post on the subject? Of course not - if they were, they would be posting on the subject. But when the issue becomes mainstream and bigtime users post diaries on the subject, it becomes clear where the majority of Kossacks stand. I say this as someone who has read DKos for years prior to deciding to open an account. This is not to say that there are not a what I believe to be a minority of Kos posters who I have the utmost respect for and would even vote for, should they run for election. I want to be very clear that I do not believe the entirety of Kos is like a Borg entity that thinks alike. I won't name the posters in this comment (as I know if I name them, then there will be cyberstalkings of them), but we both know who I am talking about when I say there are some extremely intelligent and thoughtful posters on there, despite the morass of the majority.
Are the majority of Kossacks anti-Israel? The only way to know is to see a poll on the subject. It is clear that a majority of Kos posters who post on the subject are extremely anti-Israel. It is my contention, based on the comments in diaries I have seen that hit the 'most recommended' list, that most Kossacks in general are also anti-Israel, but certainly Eric S is right that the only proof that this is the case would be found in a poll on the subject that somehow was answered by a majority of Kossacks. Fair point. Thanks again, Eric S, for stopping by. You can let Kossacks know that while I am amused by what happened, I do not hold a grudge and hold no anger towards DKos. Rather, I take the experience as an important lesson in the hypocrisy of those who claim to value free speech. It's yet another chapter in the same old tactics of 'anti-zionists.'

37 comments:

GCL said...

DKos? I'm terribly ignorant, what is this?

Red Tulips said...

Daily Kos, sorry!

#1 blog for Democrats.

Thomas Forsyth said...

Red Tulips> That is very sad for Democrats. If the Republicans stop shooting themselves in the foot, 2008 may be a good year for them if they can make crazy Kos an issue.

I guess the Kossacks will next committ cyber progroms.

Anonymous said...

you were banned for violating the terms of the site.

Red Tulips said...

Anon:

I know exactly why I was banned.

Being pro-Israel and anti-Rachel Corrie is not allowed on the site.

I understand perfectly.

Anonymous said...

Thomas, I think thats unrealistic. Its a single blog, and I can assure you that a few arguments on the internet will not sway many people. Anyone who even brings it up will leave themselves open to being painted as a complete idiot.

When a blog reports on something,. its one thing. But arguments in the comments section isn't exactly newsworthy. And if the Republicans tried to bring this up so soon after losing, and in the midst of their public relations issues, it would smack of complete desperation.

Red Tulips said...

Jason:

I agree that this is not newsworthy. It's merely personally interesting.

But make no mistake about this. DKos is the #1 site for Democrats, and it's clear who frequents the site. There are some posters I have the highest respect for. I don't want to paint the entire place with a broad brush. However, it's clear where the majority is, and it's clear that the site has the backing of major Dems. I would not per se not vote for someone associated with DKos, but I will be very skeptical of them.

Sad.

Anonymous said...

Saying its not newsworthy is, I think, a massive understatement.

And like I said, anyone in the mainstream press who tried to make an issue out of it would look extremely silly.

Red Tulips said...

Jason:

I am not trying to put this on front page news of the New York Times. I am not exactly sure where you are going with your comment.

Thomas was merely commenting that the antisemitism of the posters on DKos, as a generality, is news. I would agree with him on that, as it shows where the minds are of the hard left supporters of the Dems.

Anonymous said...

""""If the Republicans stop shooting themselves in the foot, 2008 may be a good year for them if they can make crazy Kos an issue.""""

I think thats more than simply saying its newsworthy.

Thats saying the other party can make an issue out of it.

Which I don't think they can, and I think any suggestion that they can is unfounded.

Red Tulips said...

Jason:

DKos is the #1 site for Dems on the internet. Mainstream Dems regularly post on Kos. John Kerry posted on Kos. Jews voted for Dems at a rate of 87% in the last election. If Jews as a whole saw what the supporters of the Dems were spouting...I believe it would give them pause. I saw posters on there who are avowed staff members of Democrat politicians who absolutely agreed with these libels.

My story is minor, but part of a larger picture, sadly.

Anonymous said...

Yes, but those are people posting on the website, not the comments. When websites and blogs get noticed by the press on any level, the comments are still generally ignored, since most anyone can comment. Its usually not considered any mroe important than the letters that get sent or emailed to a newspaper that the paper publishes.

Red Tulips said...

Jason:

The commentators on DKos are not isolated. Lest we forget, Meteor Blades, a site admin, wrote a glowing review of Jimmy Carter and his abomination book. Lest we forget, Markos Moulitas wrote of the Iranian Holocaust cartoons that they should be taken off the site only because they make the Dems look bad. (they were put on the site by Jerome a Paris to engage in a 'free speech debate.')

It is not limited to commentators, but make no mistake about it, there are good commentators on there. They are simply a minority.

I am glad curmudgiana led the riots against me, as it shows the site for what it is.

Very sad to see, but an important lesson.

Mr. Smarterthanyou said...

It isn't the far left, it is the mainstream left. Lieberman lost his primary based on the dem mainstream going with the "far" left.

Red, I really don't think that Kos would change most jews minds, we've already discussed the suicidal tendencies of mainstream modern jews. Jews tend to be better educated than average in the US, there is no way to keep pretending that they don't know where the dems stand. You yourself voted for dems, and your reasons don't distinguish you from the other jews who voted that way, except that you admit that you know this stuff.

Red Tulips said...

Smarty,

Sorry, but most Jews absolutely are unaware of where the base of the party stands. I wish more were aware.

Honestly, at this point, I wonder if it's worth even worrying. The Dems will do what they do, and I just feel very disengaged from American politics. I disagree with Repubs on many major issues, and clearly don't feel at home with many of the Dems. I am in political no man's land.

Hey, see any good movies lately?

Anonymous said...

The Good Shepherd was AWESOME.

Red Tulips said...

Jason:

I loved The Queen. I also hear Dreamgirls was amazing. Did you see it?

Hype said...

i hope you learned something. alas, i suspect you did not. it was pretty funny how you tried so hard to convince the posters on DKos you weren't a troll. it was so obvious.

have a nice life!

Red Tulips said...

hype,

I only was a 'troll' if you define it as looking to combat blood libels against Israel. I see that that is the definition on Dkos. It's cool, it was a good lesson learned for me.

Might I add, unlike the hypocrites on DKos, I actually will not be censoring your viewpoint and invite you to comment on here if you want to. I doubt you will, as I know you simply want your viewpoint reinforced.

Sad.

Anonymous said...

Good Bye

Red Tulips said...

Anon:

Typical. Bye bye!

Anonymous said...

Hmmm... Wonder whether I should register. See how long I last.

Red Tulips said...

Shlemazl:

LOL, I doubt you would last long, given one of the 'Kossacks' already listed you as a 'hate blog.'

Funny that the name 'Kossack' is chosen - given the history of the Kossacks, and how they raped and pillaged Jewish towns.

Red Tulips said...

Forgot to add the citation to your blog, right here.

Re-reading it, I see you were not listed as a hate site in the way BEAJ and Ibrahamav were, but the association is clear.

Eric S said...

My DKos user name is Eric S, and I am one of the users there posting on the IP situation who supports Israel as strongly as you. Perhaps you remember me, as we recommended several of each others comments, and I have spoken in your defense more than once.

I think you should be a bit clearer about the DKos environment to your readers. Yes, there is a majority of extreme anti-Zionists camped out around the IP debates, but there are also many strong intelligent defenders of Israel there as well. Further, I do not think you can characterize all of the Daily Kos community from these zealots. In fact, I believe that most of the community gives a wide berth to the inflamed passions that are resident there.

But most imprtantly, I am writing you today because you have disappointed me, red tulips. You represented yourself as a "Daily Kos girl," unfairly banned. And though you may (or may not) have been unfairly banned, you are not a "Daily Kos girl" but in fact a liar, who has embarassed me for defending you.

You may think you have been a secret agent doing what you must for right and the American way, but that just makes you as deluded as the worst anti-Zionist jerk.

felix said...

So I guess the "Declaration of War with Radical Islam" wouldn't go over real big at the Daily Kos.

Red Tulips said...

Eric S:

In fact I was honest from day one that I was on DKos to debunk blood libels. I said it on the first day, when curmudgiana asked me. I also was unfairly banned. I also am actually a progressive, and while I was on there as a single issue person, most certainly I am a Democrat and did not lie about that. I absolutely was on there hoping to see dialogue. I was hoping to not see a morass of anti-Israel propoganda.

I also mentioned on my blog that there are good posters out there. Specifically, you are one of them. You are not the only one. Yet, I see you as a minority, and I see the anti-zionists as controlling the discussion. I never said that the entire community hates Israel - I said the majority do - that's simply my experience over there.

Feel free to disagree, you are welcome back anytime and post what you have to say, as is anyone, including curmudgiana. I hold no grudges, I take it as an important lesson learned about the community.

P.S.: Thanks for stopping by, I hope that cleared things up.

Red Tulips said...

Felix:

LOL.

Red Tulips said...

P.S. to Eric S:

Why would I link to my blog (which I did on day one), if I was hiding who I am?

I never was some sort of 'secret agent' and fail to see where you would think that. I was honest from day one over who I was - even putting in my profile that I supported the war against Islamofascism. Why would I do that if I were some sort of 'secret agent'? I was the most honest you could possibly be from day one about who I am and what I believe.

Eric S said...

Thank you for your reply.

I would like to clear up one single point you made, and leave all the rest, if you don't mind.

You say: "I never said that the entire community hates Israel - I said the majority do - that's simply my experience over there."

I do not believe it is true that the majority of the DKos community hates Israel, and your experience couldn't possibly support that conclusion. Those committed to the discussion of Israel are but a small percentage of the larger DKos community, and it is principally that small group you were exposed to.

Red Tulips said...

Eric S:

I can understand the desire to hope that the larger community does not hate Israel, but I would have to dispute your conclusion.

I believe the larger community clearly does not discuss Israel on a day to day basis, but, after the release of Jimmy Carter's book and the subsequent lauding of Jimmy Carter by the vast majority of the community, I feel the resulting comments speak for themselves. Lest we forget the diary that Meteor Blades, an admin, wrote. Lest we forgot the hundreds of responses to that diary, from individuals who normally do not post on the subject. And lest we forget the infamous Jerome a Paris, who wrote a diary recently about the Iranian Holocaust cartoons, advocating they brought up a legitimate debate, in response to which Markos himself said "worst timed diary ever - get this off the site, or at the very least, repost it after the election."

Do I believe the majority of Kossacks are quite as passionately anti-Israel as the posters who regularly post on the subject? Of course not - if they were, they would be posting on the subject. But when the issue becomes mainstream and bigtime users post diaries on the subject, it becomes clear where the majority of Kossacks stand. I say this as someone who has read DKos for years prior to deciding to open an account.

This is not to say that there are not a what I believe to be a minority of Kos posters who I have the utmost respect for and would even vote for, should they run for election. I want to be very clear that I do not believe the entirety of Kos is like a Borg entity that thinks alike. I won't name the posters in this comment (as I know if I name them, then there will be cyberstalkings of them), but we both know who I am talking about when I say there are some extremely intelligent and thoughtful posters on there, despite the morass of the majority.

Thanks for coming back. You are welcome to post here anytime, and I truly welcome you.

Eric S said...

I find the argument above to be the kind of cherrypicking that begins with the conclusion and will not be deterred. At best, these are your impressions.

But to it all, I add two notions.

You are hearing the deafening volume created buy a small group of extremely loud and obnoxious true believers and imagining it is a multitude.

The majority, I believe, are put off by the raw and contentious tenor of IP debate, and so either distance themselves from it, or hold less fervent positions (certainly not hate) in the absence of extensive consideration.

And that is my opinion, though a real poll would be interesting.

Red Tulips said...

Eric S:

I disagree with you, but in the interest of fairness, given how much I respect your opinion, I will be editing my post to reflect what you just wrote.

All the best,

Red Tulips

Anonymous said...

Thank you.

Irina Tsukerman said...

I honestly would LOVE to see a moderate Democrat alternative to DKos. Do you think that is possible?

Mr. Smarterthanyou said...

The only moderate dems that exist are the ones too stupid to realize what the dems stand for.

Look at littlegreenfootball's summary of the first 100 hours, The dems are insane. Voting for them is voting for a repeat of the killing fields in Iraq and the ME, for tax increases, for floods of illegal aliens, for a nuclear Iran, and for continued suffering in Israel.

Mr. Smarterthanyou said...

Sorry, that was www.gatewaypundit.com, not LGF.