Thursday, August 9, 2007

African dreams!

Please read the following JPost article...seems that Africa, Egypt excluded, is more pro-Israel than Europe!

The article posits that perhaps the reason for this is the lack of Israeli anti-zionist infiltration into Africa. Ilan Pappe has not taught in Kenya. I believe that Africans take to heart the fact that "black African" and "slave" are used interchangeably in Arabic. I believe they takethe Sudanese genocide at the hands of its Arab government to heart. I think this has an impact. I also know Africans are religious...Euros are not. Maybe that too has an impact.



Zaki said...

Who told you that "black african" and "slave" are the same in arabic? Thats a lie.
"slaves" mean 'abeed or raqeeq. A black man is called "Zingy", singular of "Zonoug". These words have nothing to do with slavery.

Red Tulips said...


I did not say that the word was the same, I said they are used interchangeably.

Michael said...

I think the history between Arab muslims and non-muslim (and muslim) black Africans has a lot to do with it, but there are probably some other factors, too...

Until the 1970s, when the Arab states started really bullying their weight around the UN, Israel maintained a large number of humanitarian- and economic-aid missions in sub-Saharan Africa. Not only did Israel's foreign aid workers try to help develop struggling African nations, but they also showed Israel as a the example it can be: a country that started with all the odds against it, and still build a flourishing state.

The African leaders of today were young adults 40 years ago. It's possible that they remember that.

Or it could just be that they haven't been fooled by the Arab states' unending propaganda...

Zaki said...

No their not used interchangeably either. A black person in Arabic is either called "Zingy" or African or simply "black" (aswad). Never does anybody refer to them as slaves.

Red Tulips said...


Please read the following article about modern day slavery of Black Africans:

link here


Finally, proof that Black Africans are called slaves:

read this

Their tormentors abuse them as abid, Arabic for slave, or zurka, meaning “dirty black”.

Zaki said...

You post links of evil men doing something and mean to show that this represents most Arabs. I could do the same and post links about your racists and supremacists in America, trying to imply that America is a racist country (which it is not).
I hope you are also aware that racism is against Islam, as your third link clearly said.

Michael said...

If racism is against Islam, why does it keep popping up in Islamic countries?

The counter question, why does it keep popping up in America? is a legitimate riposte, but I would argue this difference: In America, racism is not tolerated by society at large, whereas in Islamic countries, it is.

In Saudi Arabia, for example, the intolerance of all religions other than Islam is enshrined in laws that make Jim Crow look benign.

In Sudan, to give another example, the Islamic government's official policy towards the blacks (whether muslim or non-muslim) is to rape them out of existence. This is root of the Darfur conflict.

And Kosovo, muslims are methodically removing all traces of non-muslim life.

Nowhere is there any particular muslim outcry condemning any of this, and I think that was part of Red Tulips' point.

Red Tulips said...

Thanks, Michael. You wrote exactly what I was trying to express. :)

Zaki said...

You said: "In America, racism is not tolerated by society at large, whereas in Islamic countries, it is."

And you are wrong. I live in Syria. Every Arab and Muslim I know hates racism. And I sure know much more Arabs than you do.

You brought Saudi Arabia as an example. Do you think Saudi Arabia is a model for real Islam? That is foolish, because they have done very wrong things that have nothing to do with Islam. The teachings are very clear that Muslims should tolerate non Muslims, as long as the non Muslims tolerate them. This is common sense. I dont care what the hell Saudi Arabia does, and I am sure that the key word here is "corruption". I know many Saudi people, and they are everything but evil.
Islam is strictly against racism, and none of your lies will change that.

And you really have no idea about Darfur. The background of this crisis was never race or religion. Read this old article.

Quote from you: "Nowhere is there any particular muslim outcry condemning any of this, and I think that was part of Red Tulips' point."

Again you are wrong. Just because YOU do not hear it does not mean it doesnt exist. There is a very big difference. No Muslim I know of approves one bit of what is happening in Darfur. Not ONE.

Your problem is that you are glad to hear or present things in the way that its always Arabs or Muslims who are wrong, every time. Rule number one of a conflict between Muslims and others: The Muslims are always wrong.
You blindly believe only half the picture and false information as long as it's the Muslims fault in it. You think we are barbarians and subhuman, and yet you know nothing about us.

It makes me sick to talk to people like you, because you are too blind to look beyond your 'Muslim = Wrong' image. I am not coming back here so dont waste your time. Goodbye.

Red Tulips said...


I do not know where I said that if something is Islamic, it is per se wrong. In fact, in the post just before this one, I was praising the Bangladeshi people, in contradistinction to their government!

With that said, your Sudan article is nonsensical. Sudan has oil, but is not as oil rich as other states, and in fact the US does not get Sudanese oil. And if you are suggesting that the conflict was instigated by the US, you really are one step away from saying it is the fault of the JOOOOOZ.

Zaki, if 'every Muslim you know hates racism,' then I ask you what Muslims are doing about the crisis in Darfur? What are Muslims doing about the virulent racism of Saudis, and of the annhilationist goals of Hizballah? What are you doing about the hardcore antisemitic hatred rampant throughout the Arab world? What is being done?

You say you are against racism (and that Muslims as a people are against racism), and yet I see no mass movements to correct this. All I see is the blaming of the Zionists.

Evidently African people see reality as it exists, rather than the way you would like to think it exists. Good for them.

PM said...


there is certainly no relation between Kufir and Slave too... Yet Arab superimist consider to take Kufirs as slave... so How can you claim, that they will forgive black arabs.. which are far more easy pray to Islamofacist.

Eitan Ha'ahzari said...

Well...this short discussion does shed some light on the better aspects of Islam. I, as you know, do not agree that Islam is a violent religion per se and think that Zaki's attempts to illustrate this are well-founded. Yes, there are conflicts the world over in which Muslim countries are trying to sabotage the world community into accepting Sharia. But I'm sure that most Muslims are free-thinking individuals who oppose this,if not openly than behind closed doors as not everyone has the courage to dissent against their government, especially if this is a corrupt, despotic government.

I think that Zaki's words should serve as a model to real Islam. He says that most Muslims(and he lives in Syria; we don't) he knows oppose what is happening in Sudan. Good for them!

My point, I guess, is that there is still lots of hope left for the Muslim world.

Red Tulips said...



Zaki linked to an article on the crisis in Sudan, blaming it on America, and claiming it is not a genocide.

How are his words words of hope???

Moreover, just because he *says* he is not racist is not enough; the reality on the ground is what it is. We all know that the reality is Syrians do nothing to stop the rampant racism found in Saudi Arabia, do nothing to stop genocide in Darfur, and do very little to stop their own PM's reign of terror upon Lebanon. All they tend to focus on is Israel and those evil Zionists. (not every Syrian, but most)

So it's one thing to say how anti-racist most Muslims he knows are, it is quite another to see their actions, which speak louder than words.

Eitan Ha'ahzari said...

Red Tulips: maybe, however, we should give ppl like Zaki the benefit of the doubt. After all, he came to a passionately Zionist blog and gave his two-cents worth on the situation with a positive edge to his comments. I'd like to see the same behavior on our behalf.

Red Tulips said...


I encourage Zaki to continue commenting (unless he is gone for good), however, he will not meet an uncritical eye.

I am glad that Zaki says he is anti-racist. I would like to know what he sees being done about this, as many of his co-religionists are not.

Eitan Ha'ahzari said...

Red Tulips: agreed. I, too, would like to see what good-hearted folks like Zaki are actually doing about the anti-Semitism and anti-Americanism prevalent in their countries.